SKiT_R31

yeah theres nothing that has to be ripped appart, you simply have to unplug the old ecu and plug in the new, its like 2 screws to get to it (passenger side kick panel) and the plug bolt. No cutting of wires. you could get the rb20de ecu to work, but i dont think the injectors are the same (if not you'd have to swap them or run a safc) and you'd have to run all the rb20de gear (afm etc) and as daisu said, all your fuel and timing maps could be out of whack, especially if you get the r33 engine (plus no vct), swapping ecu's is definately the way to go - and a 25de ecu is worth sfa.

should be all fine, providfing you get the complete rb25 engine (inc afm etc) and dont forget the ecu Your clutch will fit, but its its a stocker, i'd change it. Exhaust manifold will also fit. edit: ive put an r32 engine in an r33 (r32 spec rb30det) just so you know it is possible, all worked fine, as i said before only differences are the idle gear and injector plugs, you'll have to use your own rb20 ignitor, cas is the same, etc

no worries. Since the box is already out, you may aswell bolt it to your new engine and put them both in at the same time, make things easier. You can get an R33 engine, and everything should still pluging ok, most sensors are the same you'd just need to swap somer plugs over, i think the idle gear and the injectors are all thats different. As for the VCT - it doesnt have to be connected but you could just run a seporate plug and wires to the ecu, would be pretty easy. i've got a cut R33 RB25DE loom you can have cheap if your interested I dunno how compatible the 32 is with the 33 wiring, but i would avoid completely changing looms if possible, not my cup of tea anyway

hang on, wait what? is he manual converting it as well or...? i'd just leave your gearbox in the car, just out with the old engine and in with the new, change the clutch while your at it t5o somthing a bit better tho. The tailshaft is same afaik, and the rb25de doesnt really make much more power than the 20 anyway, and people get away with turboing them (or dropping in turbo donks) with no issues.

as above, if your just putting an rb25de from an r32 into your car, it will all just bolt up to your stock rb20de gear, including with wiring loom (will bolt straight up) only other thing you'd need to change would be ecu.

There are plenty capable, just need to enlarge the combustion chamber etc, the problem is, there isn't much benefit over the 30e head with this modification, only one is the better electrics and twin cam capability (one cam adjustment etc) as standard they have about the same flow as the 30e! You could heavily port it and put in oversize valves etc, but by the time you pay for all that, its cost you way more than just buying an R33 RB25 spec head. You can also just not run the vct at all and use it with 20 electrics. WHITER33GTS-T, haha pfft, you'll be lucky to pull a 14!

is this greddy style?

LS1's are damn economical with a tune and diff gears, with low boost and a tune in a lighter car, they'd be way more drivable than an RB with less power, and probably better on fuel (when driving easy).

hah, yeah theres no reason why you couldnt see 130kw, esp with more compression (Twincam RB's love it) I aggree with Eug though about theinjectors not being required (you didnt mention them to me), maybe just a fuel pump, if you were to combine that with a pressure regulator, you could increase the spray pressure then lean out the maps, which could work better for you power wise, wheras just larger injectors would probably net no gain. Although i did notice my engine ran a lot better with 370cc injectors compared to 270cc injectors, i think this is because by using a SAFC to adjust the afm signal, i was using better fuel maps from the ecu (by seeing 37% less airflow the ecu would have been using more confortable inigiton/fuel maps for typical 110-120kw range) but then the emanage has ignition timing adjustment? edit: too slow edit: also dont under estimate cams, you can get good gains with even mild cams, much better than just adjustment. as for intake, i didnt mention this because i dont know anything about the neo's, dont they already have a twin setup joining into 1 single tb? How much spare flow is there that ther tb limits? And changing things like this lead to other problems, like with traction control(?). A short runner front facing style (esp internally bell mouthed etc) will be your best bet for top end power, but depends what you want to spend, whats available for the neo's and how difficult+sacrifices. And at the end of the day, dont forget about drivability vs power vs economy, i.e. The more you shift the power up, the less its going to be happy down low, you bring compression and timing up its going to need good fuel, stuff like that. Also i aggree with Eug, lightening things does make a hell of a difference (add lighter harmonic balencer to it aswell), combine it with some shorter diff gears and you can have some good fun with low power, ditto for lightening the car, removing accessories (or underdriving) and it can all make the car more drivable when it has less bottom end.

ticking? injectors tick? yeah sounds like your just worrying a bit too much, like a mother with her baby

oil smelling like petrol is a bit of a worry take off your oil breathers while its running and see if theres a constant stream of smoke etc comming out, or when you rev whether anything comes out, that can rule out piston rings how long after car is off does it keep blowing smoke?

Hey, got pics? interested in tas

Hey, is this RB25 gear??? If so, what are you after for the plenum? cheers

you would have to change the pistons unless your happy with high comp? no oil squirter's wouldn't phase me if true, dunno about oil drain? Would have thaught it would?

i agree with above. If there wasn't a market for n/a's, they wouldn't be sold... And again i agree with track times, I've seen a lot of low powered, slow 1/4 mile cars smash cars with twice the power. i initially bought my engine (30de) from don when i was fairly new to twin cams and twin cam turbo's (living old school) i just wanted some newer technology, with fair amount of power (~ 14sec was what i was after) to put in my R31. And it was good, 151rwkw, great fun and 11L/100 economy, i was pretty happy with that. Since then I've gone through a f**k load of cars, turbo and n/a and none come close to the fun of my 31 with the 30de (though a couple other non-engine mods add the to enjoyment...) I initially bought the engine to turbo it, but quickly changed my mind - i only changed bits of the engine for 2 reasons, 1. to make it mine (its unrecognizable from dons) 2. heater hose cracked, temp gauge failed, head warped, Ended up being over machined, causing compression/squash problems. Instead of decomping it or something like that, its getting oversize 25det pistons and a deck shave (to sit them flush) to have ~ 11.5ish compression + tune to get the squash right again and the car waaay happier than before, with tune (and the heaps of extra's that have found there way to it). And out of all my mates with various high powered boosted cars, 95% would choose the 30de to take to the track for some fun over their own car . That said, i do love turbo cars, my 30e+t wagon is heaps of fun, and a mates 30det skyline is a bit of fin too, so I'm not preaching n/a is the only way, i just love them both so much. And on top of that, if i was going to have a low powered daily, i would prefer it to be boosted than n/a...

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i'd be banking on low 15's

i dont think you've read and understood what ive been saying, ive said all along that you'll allways get more power out of a FI car after you start modding it etc, all i was saying is that you can get an n/a to make more power than a sotck or lightly modded turbo and that with equel power, n/a's are more fun but less drivable. anyway, who cares, lol the n/a vs FI argument gets old

bump up the compression when you change the cam, and give it a bigger tb/twin tb's or ff plenum (short runers will help top end) and you'll be looking at some sexy power, i love compresion. wtf is that supposed to mean? too many people pass judgement without getting in a high powered n/a. Alot of my mates have shitloads of power in high $$ boosted setups, and they ALL love my car/the engine, most refusing to let me boost it when the thaught crosses my mind. Just raw power and insane response, short geared and quick revving. dont knock it till you've tried it example, stomp my turbo at 4k in second (no broad minded femalech drop) slight lag then accelleration, stomp it in the n/a = wheelspin sideways. The n/a has better tyres/wheels also, thats the shit i love about it, instant power.

lol, that because its f**k all! esp in a heavy skyline Once again, im not saying you cant make more power, just that they can actually make power. For example, some people are content with the stock turbo power, same as they are with the power of other stock cars, i.e. middle aged man and his ls1. So if people can be happy with there 140kw stock engine, why cant others modify there engine to be the same? Not everyone wants back breaking power, and if you cant have decent power due to laws (such as p plater) then why not?? At the end of the day, working an na to 150kw, is the same as working a turbo to 200kw, why bother? You could just buy a new engine? or leave them standad? in the scheme of things, whats a couple grand? You could spend that on a turbo alone! im not saying n/a is beter im just saying its all relative, some people want 100kw in a 4pot, some want 500hp in an old n/a carbied 8. Each to there own. as i have said before, i would much rather 200rwkw n/a than 200rwkw turbo (with the same motor) as far as fun factor is concerned, but would prefer turbo (with same engine + same power) as a daily, as its generally more drivable - since n/a needs compression, cams, timing translating to good fuel and revs, which isnt so good for a daily. That said, owning both (a worked turbo and n/a) the n/a is so much more reliable and predictable. The turbo just scares me every time it pisses or farts, as im shitting its going to spit a piston from a random spike/lean out, whereas the n/a just powers on not caring what the f**k is going on. thats my personal opinion, n/a's are fun, and im not into big power, my cars are generally light and have plenty of power for me, so a small increase is a good increase, when you start making big power you start hitting big money and/or constant problems, plus we are talking about street cars, and you have to get it to the ground. and dont think im an n/a fan boy, whenever somone comes to me asking for more power (decent increase) my response is almost allways just boost it, its just so easy, and even a couple psi will shit on anything you can do without opening up the engine, and help economy. as for nos, lol fark yeah, but its not really n/a

Now heres where your wrong. There is no reason why an n/a cant produce more power than a factory turbo, from your quote, you are saying that it cant happen, well it can. whats a stock rb25det got? 140rwkw? You could happily get that out of an rb25de, more even, and thats with the same capacity. But if the question is, can a N/A produce more power than a turbo, then no, because no matter how much work you put into an n/a, the same can be done + boost imo. as for the origional question, 180-200kw is achievable with a 3L bottom end, and with less work than people seem to think.

how much damage? you might be able to get away with just honing it

I dont get what your trying to prove? Its obvious that your allways going to get more power out of a FI engine, but it doesnt mean you cant get decent power out of n/a. a fairer comparison is a 1.5L boosted on 1 bar vs a 3L n/a, or a 2L boosted on 0.5 bar vs a 3L N/A, as they have the same theoretical capacity shouldn be easy as, it wouldn't be far off that now would it?

What problems are you having? is it just with the tune? somthing looks way out of whack on that graph, a proper tune should work wonders - does the rb20de have different cams or cam timing to the turbo model? It definately should be spooling earlier, and that graphs all over the show, still though its niice power for only 9psi on a 2L. Is it al the same bolt ons as you had with your 20det? ditto

let me know if it didn't sell