thanks jules , what no-one has had them on a dyno yet with any mods, i was hoping for around 40+awkws, but don't know how well these cars respond to mods. i located a nice white axis in south aus ,july 2003 build, 44k kms , grade 4b , cargo barrier , all the usuals , no sun roof though , but cant have everything , spoke to ben at northshore , he only had the black axis 2002 nice , but black is a pain in the arse , thanks for all your input, regards alan,