OPH tonite (wedensday 10th July)

[AndyMac]

The OP is getting colder, you do it late enough and the road gets that damp feel about it...

Cool when you expect it and can drift with it.

Its going to take one death on the OP or Nasho run and we all might as well put the cars away for a long time.

you guys are lucky there wasn't any bikers or oncoming at the time of the spins.

[U WERE MINE]

im sorry guys.. but ure attitudes really disapoint.. yes accidents do happen.. but these are not accidents, do not kid ureselves into thinking they are.. and they are not just heaps of metal, that can be fixed.. there heaps that can kill ppl guys! yes.. and u cant just fix that..

there is no accident when racing ppl up the old highway and trying to keep up or lead.. as was the case here.. simple as that.

rac33r, i went to this "Team Evade" website you have which is basically promoting racing.. you realise whoever orgainised all this would be LEGALLY responsible at events?? a bit of food for thought..

its not a matter of being "unlucky" as u said rac33r, luck has nothing to do with it.. if u keep going up there wiht that attitude.. u will have more accidents untill.. yeah ill let u guys figure that out

[U WERE MINE]

rac33r, mate i dont mean to be stiring u nor do i have any personal grievence with u... i was even intending on going up and meeting u guys myself if i had a license..

i know i sound like a bloody old know it all fart.. but u guys have to be carefull with things like that.. were lucky here in sydney we havnt had any deaths (touch wood) that i know of from anyone on these forums.. id just like to keep it that way:)..

[Rac33r]

U got me and team evade all wrong..!! we do not promote crashing our cars or putting our cars at risk like that! like i said I tell everyone with me to be careful and not push past wot they are capable of.! the incident has now been blown out of proportions..! We are not promoting ppl to have accidents..! Every person goes up there and drives however fast and however slow they want to...! After the spin the gtr stopped racing and the R32 too..! most of us slowed down a bit....and as I said....its not like we go up there blind and just thrash our cars around not knowing wots going on..! we have probably been in the last 4 months about 20 times....with NO incidents..driving exactly the same way every time..!

Wot i meant abt the "hunk of metal" was that....it was lucky that no body got hurt and that the damage on the car is minor compared to any human injury. And we do not go up to OP with the mind that our cars are nufn and spinning is nufn...we take good care of our cars....! the driver of the car has and consistently drives faster than the speeds he was going at that night....and was not pushing that limit wen he did crash....

We are very conscious of the consequences of a crash on both human life and on the cars. We are not stupid idiotic kids playing with toys...!

URMINE..I seriously dont think there is any need to be disappointed...if u had just met us u wud understand..! We are jus like every other enthusiast. We build up the confidence and speed at OP or any other roads.....and hence I say that the roads are well known...some of us have pace notes just to familiaries themselves with the roads.. and we do not thrash our cars just to keep up with the guy in front or woteva... TRUST me man...we are not dikhead crazy drivers who don't know wot we are doing..! ANd I hope to god that there is no fatalities on OP or whereever...! BTW...wot happened to ur license??

[GTR-80Y]

Hey rac33r, havn't been on the forums for a few days......would of liked to come on the op with u guys to finally meet. Saw Supermarcus last nite after i did the nasho run with performance forums told me about the crashes.

When it comes down to it its up to the driver to make the choice whether to drive crazily or conservativly. Urmine, i've seen you go pretty hard through akuna bay.....and its all too easy to say u know the roads and your car and thats the reason why u never crash. I don't think knowing the road or your car has anything to do with your chances of crashing, if you gonna push its always a chance, there are so many variables. If we choose to do a nasho or OPH run, then thats the risk we take and accept. Urmine, you of all people should know this. I've done plenty of track days and nasho runs but i'm still **** at the nasho and nearly crash at one corner or another everytime, including a close call with the trees last nite.

[Blitz]

Rac33r: firstly, its a shame to hear what happened. I have to say here you and urmine etc have good points, the basicaly underlying one is if you personally want to race then u accept all the consequences. As urmine said cars arent "chunks of metal" and in case u didnt realise this is an enthusiasts club where people regard their cars with a slightly higher passion. I would have thought that it would only take one loose or spin to make u and ur cruisers think well hang on... lets go easy here...

This is by no means directed soley at you, but those who really abuse places like the OPH WILL mess it up for the rest of us who like to drive hard BUT sensible.

The key is knowing ur limits, thinking you are jim richards junior gets you nowhere.

Enjoy - drift - be sensible

[U WERE MINE]

gtr boy, u know im a nut!!.. BUT.. i drive at 80% of my limit.. i always make sure there is that little bit of lee way.. through akuna natio or op or whatever..

and most of u who know my car... know that ive spent a bit on suspension which makes it alot easier and predictable to handle if i did loose it..

all im saying is 1 incident in a night fair enough.. but 3?? come on guys??

incidences like this will kill places like the op for all of us.. ..

man i wish like a op run tonight guys .. i miss my car..

rac33r, i lost my license due to points running out..

[red900ss]

Originally posted by Rac33r

the driver of the car has and consistently drives faster than the speeds he was going at that night....and was not pushing that limit wen he did crash....

well he pushed it past the limit for the conditions.

take it to the track knuckleheads

[Rac33r]

By BY...nah i think i was misunderstrood..and typed wrong abt the chunks of metal..! man of course I treasure my car...its my boo..! but i meant that wen it comes down to it..! the car is only that..! there are things that are more important..! such as life..! and other things..!

look...I am sure a lot of u guys had accidents b4..! and this isnt the first accidnet on OP..! ppl have been racing OP for years now...!! I know ppl that have been doing it for ages.. and so pls dont try claim it as ur own..! their are prangs and mishaps their all the time..! How can turn around and put all of it on us..!

URMINE...did u lose ur license through speeding?? I do not condemn speeding...as I do it myself..everyone does...lost most of my points too......hard not to...but is that not dangerous aswell..is that not why the cops are around all the time...??

[U WERE MINE]

rac33r.. yeah i lost mine due to speeding.. but my concern is the attitudes conveyed

ure treating it all as an accident.. which neither of these were.. an accident is when i was 17 on my p's and tryign to read a street sign in the distance and running up the backside of a car because i wasnt paying attention.. that is an accident..

however if ppl are doign things like pace notes etc for the op highway, racing and trying to keep up with other faster cars.. its telling me there full on trying to max there times through the op which means there on the edge.. .. that to me is not an accident.. its just a matter of when and were..

i understand where ure coming from.. as i would say ive been up the old road well over 50 times and know it quite well, but i try never to go past 80% of my ability. Any more and ure asking for trouble..

as for me loosing my license.. i basically got caught in double demerits giving it a go with a evo.. my only other speeding fine was about 2.5 years ago coming back from qld.. but ill admit i speed pretty much 75% of the time i drive.. weather it be 10km/ph over or the occassional 100km/ph over burst.. im not an angel nor do i even come close to being the "model driver", however i can say in the times ive done my op runs i have barely ever really even come close to smashing.. and im sure the ppl who know me will tell u i dont do the run at 50km/ph

but saying that.. can u tell me pushing ure car even close to the limit on op, comes close to doing 100km/ph on victoria road in a 60 or 70 zone ? both are dangerous but the risk factor is worlds apart

[Guest BOO~180]

c'mon guys whats the deal?

urmine, u keep sayin how your a nut, u drive hard, "no angel", so why you trying to preach to us?

it may just be the fact that their forum msgs, but its really patrionising the way you speak to those who went that night without evening knowing who they are? you have no idea of the experience levels, or age of those who went, so please dont judge before you really knew what happened. Also the fact IS that as soon as u start planting the pedal you are always taking a risk, doesnt matter how perfect a driver you think u are, (and this is not directed at you), but mistakes will happen i guarantee it. 80% of your limit? how can you judge your exact limits in a situation like Op, royal, akuna etc. Maybe its just because im a young driver, but i couldnt seriously know that by adding 20% more of whatever intangeable variable i would definately crash, there are just too many uncontrollable things involved, especially at a place like Op. Your argument about how some cars didnt slow down after a couple spun is irrational as well. the spins were completely unrelated to each other and didnt effect each other in anyway, its the same as saying that "because someone driving a camry died in melbourne driving 10 ova the speed limit, im gonna stay under the limit", quite ridiculous man. Now about the site promoting racing???, where are you coming from?? "URMINE" promotes racing. Sticking a front mount on your car promotes racing. So your saying noone shouldve ever organise cruises, runs etc. due to the fact that theyd be held legally liable? ~~ "just a a bit of food for thought.."

You yourself wanted to go OP if u had your license BUT if u crashed you would have held RAC33R legally liable?, i dont think you would, being a car enthusiast yourself.

so WE ARE ruining Op for the "rest of us"??, IF the "rest of us" are the same people who are completely hypocritical ova whether theyre a "nut" or conservative racer, or are even so coccky over their driving skills that they think theyll neva have an accident and most importantly preach to a guy who JUST crashed his "baby" how he shouldnt have crashed like he had a choice at the time, who's it worth saving for?

Its wrong to hint that "teamevade" is in anyway responsible for any mishaps that may occur in a cruise etc. Everyone involved knows the consequences, its just something we live with. Some people slow down, and were completely fine with it, let everyone go at there own pace, but please dont accuse the drivers at fault this time for attracting cops to OP as ALL of you out there have just as much chance of the same thing happening to u.(touch wood).

and yeh i think it is a hell of a lot more dangerous doing vic rd at 100 than pushing it at OP. At OP everyone knows what "could" but hopefully will never happen. The same cant be said for your average family driving down vic road who forget to check their blind spot as you come screaming past.

psssh, skyline owners....

[Guest MattY]

Im a member of team evade and i have to say everyone i know is aware of their own limits. The car club is growing and the number of new members is encouraging to see for a new club. As you can imagine with the more cars joining the club the more cars there are hence the greater the chance of accidents.

Fair enuff every now and then there maybe a spill, wheather it be due to going beyond the drivers limits, road conditions, stress, or whatever it maybe. But don't blame the car club or the group of ppl associated with the accident. Every man is responsible for their own car, and if they want to push it they're aware of the consequences. OP won't be ruined for others. If anything it already is ruined esp. on weekends due to it being a popular peice of road.

I enjoy being a member of silvia nsw, and team evade. I like the fact it has some "bad boy" attitude to the site. If you prefer a tamer car club, then join that one. No ones putting a gun to your head.

[U WERE MINE]

boo180, "I guess it was just one of those nights...! I think we all jus pushed it just that much harder..! For the first sector before any accidents we had like a s15, Clio, type R, GTR, R33. R32, integra vti-r all up each others ass..! all going hard..!

Man maybe I'm unlucky or sumfn..! "

its this statement and a couple of others that have lead me to my thinking.. this night was organised to push hard.. and hard it was.. 3 accidents says it all.. the thinking of its just a piece of metal etc..

im just basically saying this type of hardcore driving should be left to the track.. maybe its just me but i know the difference between giving myself a bit of leeway for something to go wrong and basically driving at the point if something goes wrong im basically ****ed.. im only 21 so i doubt its got soemthing to do with age..

and yes.. u mustnt forget every aspect this day in age of our lives has a legal side to it.. imagine one of the guys hit another 3rd party car.. nothing to do with u or the cruise... then yes that person might sue.. thats just one of many possible scenario's...

do not take this personally.. im preaching because i dont want to see any of my fellow enthusiasts hurt themselves.. there has been a great influx of fast and furious watching drivers who all wanna be a racecar driver.. fine i lvoe that its good for all of us.... but please push hard on a track!..

i dont know maybe there is no point in preaching. when u see ppl whove had tree's they hit tkae off body parts.. or an armco going through a car taking a guys legs straight off u kinda realise how vulnerable we all are.. u cant go pushing that hard on roads as hard as op.. we all know the risk's yes.. but its not worth it pushing it that hard it will always end in tears.. maybe some ppl just have to learn it in real life.. i hope u or i or anyone else never have too

[U WERE MINE]

Originally posted by MattY

Im a member of team evade and i have to say everyone i know is aware of their own limits. The car club is growing and the number of new members is encouraging to see for a new club. As you can imagine with the more cars joining the club the more cars there are hence the greater the chance of accidents.

Fair enuff every now and then there maybe a spill, wheather it be due to going beyond the drivers limits, road conditions, stress, or whatever it maybe. But don't blame the car club or the group of ppl associated with the accident. Every man is responsible for their own car, and if they want to push it they're aware of the consequences. OP won't be ruined for others. If anything it already is ruined esp. on weekends due to it being a popular peice of road.  

I enjoy being a member of silvia nsw, and team evade. I like the fact it has some "bad boy" attitude to the site. If you prefer a tamer car club, then join that one. No ones putting a gun to your head.

well then that just says it all..

i dont think i have blamed the car club and im sorry if i have somehow.. matty ure going off on a bit of a tangent to what im trying to say so ill leave it there..

[Guest DFLASH]

I think everyone has had their fair share of thoughts and proved some good points.

Just kiss & make up guys... whats done is done.. you're just gonna go round in circles arguing.

If you goto OP and take it hard, it's your responsibility, just deal with the consequences if anything happens and hope you don't endanger anyone else and if you do, well too bad, live with the guilt... you know what you were getting yourself into.

On another note tho, I do agree that taking crazy driving to the racetrack is much safer and I prefer to do it that way. I have learnt costly lessons with my car so I prefer not to cost myself more heartache and $$$. It's really not that much to go on a track, average $100 compared to $1000+ you would pay for excess for a prang if not more if you're not fully insured.

We're all friends here guys... so forget it, let it be an experience and lesson in life.

Build a bridge and get over it

[Guest MattY]

i dont think im going off on a tangent. U mentioned that team evade was promoting "racing" and pushing the limits.....

thats the type of club many of us choose, if you dont like it. Walk.

You air your opinion like you're all that, you have no license, think your fast and completely in control of ur car at all times on the road, and u think the car club im with has legal responsibilites to those who visit the site?! What do you do, law?

Anyway i get defensive when i feel that someone thinks they know it all. So i apologise in advance. (For carrying on, NOT, for my comments)

[Guest Madrid]

well, I went to visit team evades site, and although you guys think what you are doing is perfectly innocent and ok, its not.

Simple as that.

Blame it on the "racers lifestlye" whatever that is, the fact is that OPH is a public road.

When you talk about pushing to your own limits, that doesnt take into account the hundreds of other factors that have nothing to do with your driving ability.

Things such as:

* oil spills

* wet runoff from the slopes in the middle of apex's- happens a lot in 2nd stage and 3rd stage.

* oncoming cars- I dont think "racers lifestyle" can be considered an excuse when you slam head on into oncoming traffic.

* roadkill etc etc the list goes on

It doesnt matter whether you are going 80% or 100% when situations like this happen, you will have an accident unless you are extremely lucky, or extremely good at driving.

I for one have been along on one of the team evade cruises on oph, and there are perhaps 2 ok drivers in the whole team! (One of these drivers isnt even part of the team!)

When I talk about good drivers, I mean those that actually know how to react when their car loses control from the rear. The rest just mindlessly push and push.

I was invited along by a friend to this cruise, but am definitely not going to head back again after witnessing the sheer stupidity of it all. Guys, definitely prepare yourselves for more accident filled nights if you continue along this path.

I found this delicious quote from your team evade forums:

"recently had an incident on the cahill? expressway which made me think a lil. While racing with ben home from the city, weaving through lanes at 150-160k i managed to scare the **** out of me and a whole lot of traffic by locking my brakes due to a slowass lane changing taxi and skidding into the lane dividers tilting on 2 wheels 4 awhile and eventually managing to stop at a conveniantly placed stoppping bay, ironically where the RBT's usually hang out( i was a bit tipsy)."

lol, mate, is there anything else that needs to be said. You guys are a menace to society! You arent car enthusiasts, you are like kids in a toystore who havent received their first wake up call yet. When it comes maybe you will realise how fu[ked you will be when you kill someone.

Who am i to get on my highhorse and lecture your team? well i am nobody, but Ive been there and done that. I used to push over 100% in my car at OPH every week, I used to watch as I saw at least one accident every night. I used to get that feeling in my stomach everytime when I went out there thinking I would be next. I used to think I was king ****, because I thought I was actually driving my car like its meant to be driven, unlike all those show car pansies you see cruising down george street. In the end, it all meant nothing. It will probably take about 3 car accidents for you each to realise that there must be a better way.

There is one salvation, for those of you in team evade who have never taken your car to a proper racetrack, do so immeadiately. Trust me, you will never feel the need to prove your worthiness at OPH ever again. You will also realise that you can unleash 100% of your cars potential on the track. You would have been lucky to realise 70% of it at oph.

For the rest of you, who still blindly believe that OPH is your own personal racetrack; condolensces and best of luck to you.

[Guest Madrid]

Im a member of team evade and i have to say everyone i know is aware of their own limits. The car club is growing and the number of new members is encouraging to see for a new club. As you can imagine with the more cars joining the club the more cars there are hence the greater the chance of accidents.  

Fair enuff every now and then there maybe a spill, wheather it be due to going beyond the drivers limits, road conditions, stress, or whatever it maybe. But don't blame the car club or the group of ppl associated with the accident. Every man is responsible for their own car, and if they want to push it they're aware of the consequences. OP won't be ruined for others. If anything it already is ruined esp. on weekends due to it being a popular peice of road.  

I enjoy being a member of silvia nsw, and team evade. I like the fact it has some "bad boy" attitude to the site. If you prefer a tamer car club, then join that one. No ones putting a gun to your head.

True, every man is responsible for their own actions. But who is responsible when you take out some other car travelling in the opposite direction? Who is responsible when that clown travelling 160 on the cahill expressway whilst tipsy decides to blame his lockup of braking on a 'slowass lane changing taxi' [of course its slow compared to 160!!!]?

I dont claim to be one of those totally anti streetracing types, but there is a difference between spirited driving and outright stupidity. Team evade seems to drift into the latter category. Whether it be due to a lack of experience or just a lack of foresight into the consequences, the irresponsible actions of your team members can legally be traced back to your website if it occurs on an organised cruise. I dont need to do law to know this, it is simple common sense.

[d0p3y]

before you push it hard, ie to about 80% of your true limits, i think you should drive over the track/oph/where-ever-you're-racing at a medium, safe speed, to check for anything on the road like sticks, rocks, oil, and other things which could cause you to have an accident. THEN maybe push it a little harder, but not too hard! if you really want to push it hard, push it hard somewhere that you cant kill people or hurt your car too much -- a track day!! its not THAT expensive, and the knowledge you get from it is well worth thte $100 im sure

[Rac33r]

GUYS...! i think this has blown out of proportion...! Some of my comments were made lightheartedly and was not expecting neone to take them too seriously...and cos its a forum...some of my msgs did not come across too well..! But one thing is for sure...we do not take driving/racing or our cars lightheartedly..! we are very serious abt safety...the pace notes were not for speed but jus used as a way for some of the drivers to drive throught the track at moderate speeds and examine the roads..!

You guys can believe woteva the hell u want...! nufn to stop u there...but I honestly believe u guys have me and team evade all wrong...like i said b4...if u were there or knew us it wud be a different story...! and yeah we definately want to learn more abt our limits on the track days...! Some of our members have done some silly things and paid for it...! but this is not encouraged nor is it representative of all of us...

I did not realise that some of u skyline drivers were like this...I see where u are coming from..but I think some of us are getting defensive bcos we are not like the way we have been depicted...

Madrid, who are u?? u said u have come b4...jus curious...cos I really want to see where ur comments are coming from...! U are slandering us....and I jus hope that u have the balls to back up some of wot u say...!! At least give me a chance to explain (if neccessary) or see wot u mean?

Well...like i said...u guys can believe woteva u want and have ur own opinions..! U know how forums are sometimes...things get exagerated and misunderstood..!! URMINE..BY BY...i understand where u guys are coming from but do not entirely agree...

Well...newayz Boyz..safe racing..!