Piggy Backs, Timing And Power.

[Daboss]

Hi forum its me again your favorite member here to pick your brains. Ok here is the story 95 skyline gtst fmic, pod with heat shield and cas, 3.5" turbo back exhaust split dump, bosch 040 fuel pump, ebc running 12 psi, fuel pressure regulator with base pressure set at 44psi no vacuum, afc neo and always run on 100 octane fuel so about your 105 ron. So I advanced my timing via cas to about 20 degrees btdc and I tuned the afc neo on the low side because I was getting readings of 12 at idle on my wideband after car is completely warm so I used the neo to get the readings to 15 after doing this I checked my timing and it was now at about 5 btdc. Now what i want to know is if me fiddling with the neo caused this and since it is so far retarded will this affect my performance on the high throttle side of the neo cus I'm thinking 5 btdc is real crappy and it will hinder my power output. Also because base pressure is so high thats why my idle was reading so rich so what I was thinking was to turn the pressure down a bit get the afrs a bit leaner reset the low side of my neo and then see if that brings the timing back to 20 btdc if so then use the neo to get the afr's to 15 at idle while keeping timng as close to 20 btdc as possible or do I not even have to go through this as the timing wont be an issue at high throttle.

[The Mafia]

ok first of all, learn how to type in paragraphs and point format to make it easier to read. I could barely understand what you were asking?

Second, you're stuffing around with a fuel pressure regulator, which is the most stupid way of trying to get power out of a stock config. Sell the Neo, sell the FPR, and sell anything else that is completely wasting your time and buy a powerfc.

This is a really crap way of trying to make power...

Why do people persist in getting FPR's in stock setups??

Edited November 27, 2007 by The Mafia

[Tangles]

yeah SAFC's f* with the timing

look on ebay worldwide for an Apexi SITC, a Super Ignition Timing Controller

a piggyback that works very well when used with a SAFC

my mods are similar to yours, and I use these piggybacks successfully with a highflow turbo

[STATUS]

^^^ piss the lot off and just whack in an emanage skyline plug and drive kit 550-600 for timing and fuel control.

piss the FPR off.

[The Mafia]

What he said ^^ yeap, emanage is good too.

[Marco-R34GTT]

emu or emb?

[GeeTR]

Aplynipg spiacel ftilres taht aonucct for your cfafein fuleld mnirnog psot, taht bferoe my vrey eeys trmfsornrad a bclok of ill fattmored bblabe, itno smithong mgnaabele, I now uasntdned you pertclefy

  The Mafia said:

Why do people persist in getting FPR's in stock setups??

Cuz there cheap, small, easy to fit and are *most importantly* shiny

As for your question, stop playing with the base pressure, and using it to tune. Set to stock (43-45'ish) and leave it alone. Its like painting everything in your room with the white colour you want on the ceiling only, then wiping all the paint off the carpet, the door handles, the windows panes, and everything else you didn't want to have covered in paint… leaving just the ceiling.

Without being harsh, i think it's best you start listening to ppls A:'s when you ask (often the same) Q:'s again and again. I understand you feel comfortable using the benders, but you really are going to be better off getting something proper.

PS: Your aware aren't you, that ignition advance changes with engine rev's / load.

Good luck with it all

Edited November 27, 2007 by GeeTR

[R31Nismoid]

DaBoss, didnt you want to build a 500rwhp GTR?

If you cant even afford a decent management setup, then i think that is but a dream.

Either get the SITC, or a proper ECU.

By the time you get a S-AFC, SITC its virtually the same as a decent ECU anyhow.

[Daboss]

  R31Nismoid said:

DaBoss, didnt you want to build a 500rwhp GTR?

If you cant even afford a decent management setup, then i think that is but a dream.

Either get the SITC, or a proper ECU.

By the time you get a S-AFC, SITC its virtually the same as a decent ECU anyhow.

Yea that's already in the making thats why I am starved for cash with the gts-t, Just wanted to get as close to 220 rwkw in the gtst as I could without spending anymore cash as its all going towards the gtr now.

Yes Geetr I am aware it changes with revs the question I was asking was while the engine was at idle. Yea I know and I am listening and I am thankful for you guys patience and help. Just wanted to get the above mentioned hp out of the gtst without spending anymore money on it.

[Jmaac]

emu marco

[Marco-R34GTT]

Yeah, was tossing up between an EMU and PFC for my R34 GT-T...

I think that the EMU for a piggy back is bloody good from what I can gather...

[Tangles]

pls explain what is so wrong with using a FPR to bump up rail pressure by a psi or two ?

[The Mafia]

  Tangles said:

pls explain what is so wrong with using a FPR to bump up rail pressure by a psi or two ?

I'll answer your question with a question - why do you need to increase the fuel pressure in the first place?

[Tangles]

  The Mafia said:

I'll answer your question with a question - why do you need to increase the fuel pressure in the first place?

cant answet that - simply went with advice I received from a) respected members of this SAU community such as Sydneykid when I first joined 2yrs ago, and b) tuner advice

I thought bumping up fuel presure by a psi or two is like, to a certain point of view, say making the injectors flow that little bit more than normal at the same duty cycle.

ie 80% duty cycle a set of six injectors may flow XXX. bump up fuel pressure and the duty cycle comes down to say 78% at XXX rate of flow. tune the engine and get back to 80% duty cycle, and youd be using more fuel (plus more air) thus getting more power from the exact same 80% duty cycle from the injectors.

Im not a mechanic, but I thought that an adjudtable FPR such as the Nismo item is a good solid modification to perform, rather than going to larger injectors (when not looking to increase power at the engine thricefold, ie from 120rwkw to 300rwkw with injectors and full ecu/mods, in lieu of 120rwkw to 220rwkw with stock injectors and dodgy ecu/mods)

in other words I have no idea ! :laughing-smiley-014: gary said it would be a good addition to my fueling system, so I got one.

[Daboss]

  GeeTR said:

Aplynipg spiacel ftilres taht aonucct for your cfafein fuleld mnirnog psot, taht bferoe my vrey eeys trmfsornrad a bclok of ill fattmored bblabe, itno smithong mgnaabele, I now uasntdned you pertclefy

Cuz there cheap, small, easy to fit and are *most importantly* shiny

As for your question, stop playing with the base pressure, and using it to tune. Set to stock (43-45'ish) and leave it alone. Its like painting everything in your room with the white colour you want on the ceiling only, then wiping all the paint off the carpet, the door handles, the windows panes, and everything else you didn't want to have covered in paint… leaving just the ceiling.

Without being harsh, i think it's best you start listening to ppls A:'s when you ask (often the same) Q:'s again and again. I understand you feel comfortable using the benders, but you really are going to be better off getting something proper.

PS: Your aware aren't you, that ignition advance changes with engine rev's / load.

Good luck with it all

Ok took you guys advice and set everything back to the way it was and will tune from there. Now my only prob is when i check timing with the timing gun at idle, afc neo set to 0 on the low side, With the cas being fully advanced the highest reading I get is 15 btdc, did I stuff something up? I figured with the cas that far advanced it should be to at least 25 but the highest I get is 15 at 950 rpm and when I retard the timing the rpm drops. Are there any solutions for this or is it nothing to worry about?

[Tangles]

  Tangles said:

pls explain what is so wrong with using a FPR to bump up rail pressure by a psi or two ?

??

[bumble_bee]

  Daboss said:

Yea that's already in the making thats why I am starved for cash with the gts-t, Just wanted to get as close to 220 rwkw in the gtst as I could without spending anymore cash as its all going towards the gtr now.

Yes Geetr I am aware it changes with revs the question I was asking was while the engine was at idle. Yea I know and I am listening and I am thankful for you guys patience and help. Just wanted to get the above mentioned hp out of the gtst without spending anymore money on it.

geez, u only got 220rwkw from all those mods..

i got 248 and less mods..guess every car is diff..

i got a NEO, whorks fine after my second tune..

wat u got ur settings on if u know?

plus do u fine that low throttle settings dont seem to lik work..

like its always on high-throttle settings...

but i gain bout nearly 100 extra k's outa my fuel tank from the NEo...

so dats y im keepin it..

but i mit get somethin for my timing control..

lik listed above..

then mit look at getin a emange piggyback system..

coz not many place here in perth will fit a powerfc into a rb25..heard of lots of problems..

and doesnt really do much..plus u loose all ur sensors check etc..

plus it more exp. for the rb25 too...

[The Mafia]

  Tangles said:

pls explain what is so wrong with using a FPR to bump up rail pressure by a psi or two ?

  The Mafia said:

I'll answer your question with a question - why do you need to increase the fuel pressure in the first place?

Edited November 29, 2007 by The Mafia

[Tangles]

Just say you dont know mafia, and be done with it.

all this "advice" not to use a fpr.... WHY?

[QWK32]

  bumble_bee said:

then mit look at getin a emange piggyback system..

coz not many place here in perth will fit a powerfc into a rb25..heard of lots of problems..

PowerFC is a plug and play ecu, not hard to fit.

  bumble_bee said:

and doesnt really do much..plus u loose all ur sensors check etc..

are you talking about the powerfc still. cause it does alot, its a standalone ecu. it works with all the factory sensors, and with the handcontroller you can do a sensor check.