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Dr30/ S13 Front End Couple Of Qs About Tie Rod Ends

ydr030
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ydr030 Mentor

ydr030

Posted
Posted

ok so had the s13 front coilover/hub set up 4 a while now but keeps choppin out tierod ends,

has ne 1 done ne thing that rectifys the angle the end goes into the hub ?

thinkin

1) get an adjuster made up that is say 20mm longer, will give more thread but dont no if this will bring the tie rod bak to the right position?

2) get nigel to modify the hubs, which will give more lock and reduce bump steer

3) go back to origanal

4) deal with it

ne thoughts?

RiCkY TuTtY Collaborator

RiCkY TuTtY

Posted
Posted
ok so had the s13 front coilover/hub set up 4 a while now but keeps choppin out tierod ends,

has ne 1 done ne thing that rectifys the angle the end goes into the hub ?

thinkin

1) get an adjuster made up that is say 20mm longer, will give more thread but dont no if this will bring the tie rod bak to the right position?

2) get nigel to modify the hubs, which will give more lock and reduce bump steer

3) go back to origanal

4) deal with it

ne thoughts?

wat is ur steering setup? still box or r31 rack n pinion?

RiCkY TuTtY Collaborator

RiCkY TuTtY

Posted
Posted (edited)
steering box

it MAY be worthwhile going to rack setup.... that will help as i plan to do this myself when i get coilovers sometime, going to pick up a R31 x-member, rack, pump n lines etc, and which ever else is needed

please anyone correct me if im wrong if this won't help but to my thoughts to where the arms sit via box setup they sit further towards the rear therefore the tie rod end angling, but by replacing with the rack n pinion setup thus bringing further forward the rods?

Edited by RiCkY TuTtY
RiCkY TuTtY Collaborator

RiCkY TuTtY

Posted
Posted (edited)
yea if id did that id go laurel/32 crossmember etc..

i cannot remember whilst i was doing my research but if u do this which rack will u use?from what i remember the reason why i say this especially with s13 racks (not sure if r32/luarels are the same) the pinion is off-centered differently to an r31 therefore more difficult to position (maybe modifying/involving swapping more parts involved)

my mates hr31 has same setup and same problems, not sure if 31 is wider 2 ..

hmmm that does make u go ???..... pineapples maybe?

im not sure havent came across anyone complaining of this problem b4 whilst researching....

Edited by RiCkY TuTtY
Ghostrider Grand Master

Ghostrider

Posted
Posted

Here we go again!

This topic has been done to death.

Don't read forums, go talk to engineers and they will tell you the pros & cons of rack n pinion vs the stock steering box and I can tell you this, the answers your going to get aren't what you want to hear.

If your going to the drags, running in a straight line all or most of the time, do the rack n pinion conversion, but if you plan to go around corners, the geometry is going to be all wrong and your going to be chasing your tail getting it right till the sun don't shine no more.

Your playing with a short fused stick of jelly imho and with others that have researched it for longer than most of you have been alive.

Have a talk to the likes of Arthur Jackson & Stewart Wilkins and others like them and they will all tell you your going to get burnt.

If it was so easy, they would be doing it everyday, but they aren't.

D

RiCkY TuTtY Collaborator

RiCkY TuTtY

Posted
Posted
Here we go again!

This topic has been done to death.

Don't read forums, go talk to engineers and they will tell you the pros & cons of rack n pinion vs the stock steering box and I can tell you this, the answers your going to get aren't what you want to hear.

If your going to the drags, running in a straight line all or most of the time, do the rack n pinion conversion, but if you plan to go around corners, the geometry is going to be all wrong and your going to be chasing your tail getting it right till the sun don't shine no more.

Your playing with a short fused stick of jelly imho and with others that have researched it for longer than most of you have been alive.

Have a talk to the likes of Arthur Jackson & Stewart Wilkins and others like them and they will all tell you your going to get burnt.

If it was so easy, they would be doing it everyday, but they aren't.

D

fair enough point taken.... so to ur knowledge swapping the box in the r30 for rack and pinion is a no go (hypothetically - drifting)?

Ghostrider Grand Master

Ghostrider

Posted
Posted
fair enough point taken.... so to ur knowledge swapping the box in the r30 for rack and pinion is a no go (hypothetically - drifting)?

If you research this exact subject or maybe rack n pinion conversion in R30, I think you will find any number of threads.

It is my understanding, the geometry of the front end, ends up so out of whack it aint funny and trying to fix it right is expensive and a long term trial & error sequence of events.

I have spoken to both the people I mentioned, over many hours and they don't bother, as they believe there is an easier and more practical solution.

I really don't understand the big issue of having to have coil overs in a road car. It can't be as simple as the 4" brake caliper mount used in S13 towers, because VT Commodore use the 3.5" mount and that conversion is cheap as chips. The variable ride hieght availability in a road car is vastly over rated, so I would think, playing with spring hieghts would be simpler and probably cheaper.

I had a set of JIC's in my PNV, but they are now in the DR track car and standard struts, King Springs & Koni Sport inserts are back in the front, with a 23mm R31 Pintara front sway bar.

From what I'm told, there is more to it than what it looks like on the surface and it's those variables that make it an enormous challenge. And today, if it's planned to be at any time registered, the engineers have to pass the modification.

ydr030 Mentor

ydr030

Posted
  • Author
Posted

sweet link,

im still tryin to figure out it out, but goin by that if u had a longer adjuster then it should bring ther end back to the right position? or would it just allow 4 more thread ? im confused

d yea there no way i can be botherd doin the rack thing, steering box is fine just tryn to worm out bumpsteer and this tierod end gremlins

Ghostrider Grand Master

Ghostrider

Posted
Posted

Have you got any play in your steering linkages that might be causing the problem?

Also, the problem might be emphasized with the movement of the steering box because you're trying to mix 2 systems that were never designed to be that way.

I haven't entertained the possibility, other than look into a 280ZX set up, but my thoughts go to the movement the steering box system tolerates. The R n P system has virtually zero play as the rack is firmly mounted to the crossmember or firewall, where as the steering box system has some tolerated play from the flexing steering box to the linkages to the strut.

Ozdat do a steering box brace for Datto 1600, but don't do anything for the D/H/MR30. It's something I have been working on for a few months now, but as yet haven't produced a prototype for testing, as the Skynats have taken preferrence over everything else.

A brace of this nature would go a long way to eliminating the movement issue.

Cheers, D

R34 Mentor

R34

Posted
Posted (edited)

I just picked up my DR30 from the suspension shop and it feels great.

They fitted some lower springs and wheel aligned the car after the Kings lowered ones they supplied made my car sit higher.

Seems they fitted some BMW front springs and 240Z rears

I couldn't believe the difference as my car has the std setup but with new Koni's and all bushes/ball joints replaced.

Felt the difference immediately so there is no way I'd go RnP now

Car sits nice but not too low and has about neg 0.5 degree camber all around

Entering a super khana next month so we'll see how she handles

Edited by R34
Ghostrider Grand Master

Ghostrider

Posted
Posted

I have just gone through a similar exercise on my PNV.

I have King low KDFL-14 in the front & 240Z standard KDRS-09 in the rear.

It's still on stands so I don't know how it's going to sit on the road yet.

D

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