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Interesting Read On Additives In E85 Causing Injector Blockage

domino_z

By domino_z,
in R35 GTR

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Wardski Rising Star

Wardski

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Posted (edited)

For those of us who daily drive on e85, it'd be a good idea to run a tank of 98 every couple months

http://forums.evolut...07-post130.html

Out of interest, I work for Caltex at the Lytton Refinery in Bris and have had lengthy debates on ethanol based fuels for some time now with the onsite chemists.

I am aware of E10 fouling fuel filters with particulates (especially in the early blends where sugar cane was sourced for processing in early build facilities and had high "micro strand" content), but I haven't heard of any negatives of running straight e85.

A lot of testing has been done between Caltex and Holden on this (about 4 years prior to e85 hitting the pump) so I'd be sceptical that this is an overseas issue and not a concern here in Aus. I'm not sure if other fuel distributers (BP, Shell, etc) are providing e85 at the pump, and if they are, I'd be more concerned that this supply is fully imported.

Edited by Wardski
domino_z Mentor

domino_z

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Caltex is bio-fuel, not really e85 as it varies throughout season and on average in the low e70s

United are only stations offering true pump e85

I've been daily driving on e85 for over a year without any issues, but there are reports of aussies having problems with blocked injectors

Edited by domino_z
Wardski Rising Star

Wardski

Posted
Posted (edited)

Caltex is bio-fuel, not really e85 as it varies throughout season and on average in the low e70s

Not quite, you're half way there, and yes it is a form of bio-fuel (as is all nature based fuels including bio-diesels), and depending on the season we use Butane and other stimulators to boost the ethanol rating to ensure E85 is maintained. FYi, both BP and Caltex do the same for 98 PULP.

I'm not familiar with what United is supplying, but its certainly fully imported - and therefore you take a major risk as to the quality controls put in place by the importers prior to distribution to ensure you have a good product. Alarm bells are ringing for me straight away as when you consider it takes 6-8 weeks for an e85 shipment to arrive from India/Singapore/Vietnam - or even longer if further abroad, and the fact its probably about e60 when it hits our shores, there could be a number of issues with it aside from it losing density and a number of other key characteristics - which mind you, then United's suppliers then blend it with god knows what to boost it back to +/- e85 before you fill up....

IMO nothing beats home grown.

Edited by Wardski
Speedah Enthusiast

Speedah

Posted
Posted

Not quite, you're half way there, and yes it is a form of bio-fuel (as is all nature based fuels including bio-diesels), and depending on the season we use Butane and other stimulators to boost the ethanol rating to ensure E85 is maintained. FYi, both BP and Caltex do the same for 98 PULP.

I'm not familiar with what United is supplying, but its certainly fully imported - and therefore you take a major risk as to the quality controls put in place by the importers prior to distribution to ensure you have a good product. Alarm bells are ringing for me straight away as when you consider it takes 6-8 weeks for an e85 shipment to arrive from India/Singapore/Vietnam - or even longer if further abroad, and the fact its probably about e60 when it hits our shores, there could be a number of issues with it aside from it losing density and a number of other key characteristics - which mind you, then United's suppliers then blend it with god knows what to boost it back to +/- e85 before you fill up....

IMO nothing beats home grown.

Im on my 8th 44 gallon drum of E85 from United (Rozelle Sydney) since switching from Sucrogen. The lowest ethonal percentage I have seen is 93 (I test every drum)

The car gets raped hard in all different forms of motorsport and it hasn't missed a beat with United.

The Caltex brew is consistantly all over the shop.

Wardski Rising Star

Wardski

Posted
Posted (edited)

United's e85 ethanol is sourced from sucrogen, or CSR, so that's definitely home grown isn't it?

Only the petrol is from singapore.

Well blow me down, http://www.unitedpet....com.au/ethanol (sourced from DBRL Bio-refinery Ltd in Dalby, QLD)

Good to see us QLD'ers are good for something :) So the e85 is sorghum based (cereal grains + sugar cane).

Maybe the problems are stemming from the e85 cleaning out any residue in the fuel tank from previously using 98 RON and clogging fuel filters. Who knows. Either way there shouldn't be any concern about fouling from e85 by DBRL - they use current tech refining methods to create e85. I'll go have a chat with the chem lab today to get their spin.

Edited by Wardski
Wardski Rising Star

Wardski

Posted
Posted

That's cheap. Must be GTR tax on fuel too.

False economy more like it. 60ltrs of e85 won't go the distance of 60ltrs of 98 PULP - ends up the same $ / km in the end, but you spend more time at the bowser than 98 PULP :D...

domino_z Mentor

domino_z

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Not quite

I get about 20-25% less distance on the daily commute but saving about 35-40% at the bowser + united throws in more power/torque and zero carbon emissions = still winning

The benefits of e85 are there, this ain't no wheeler dealers scenario

Edited by domino_z
domino_z Mentor

domino_z

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

That's cheap. Must be GTR tax on fuel too.

Have filled up at 4 different stations around me now over last month and all been just over a dollar

I think that one near you is price gouging on all the kids with mod'd cars up your way

Edited by domino_z
xALmoN Grand Master

xALmoN

Posted
Posted

Well blow me down, http://www.unitedpet....com.au/ethanol (sourced from DBRL Bio-refinery Ltd in Dalby, QLD)

Good to see us QLD'ers are good for something :) So the e85 is sorghum based (cereal grains + sugar cane).

Maybe the problems are stemming from the e85 cleaning out any residue in the fuel tank from previously using 98 RON and clogging fuel filters. Who knows. Either way there shouldn't be any concern about fouling from e85 by DBRL - they use current tech refining methods to create e85. I'll go have a chat with the chem lab today to get their spin.

guess my news is old news now then, because i remember that sucrogen used to supply united, then again, that was in 2009, i guess they've made enough off their e10 and government subsidies to acquire their own refinery. Btw, are you in the refinery business? Care too hook up a fellow forummer with a grad program space? I'm doing chemical engineering =x

Wardski Rising Star

Wardski

Posted
Posted (edited)

guess my news is old news now then, because i remember that sucrogen used to supply united, then again, that was in 2009, i guess they've made enough off their e10 and government subsidies to acquire their own refinery. Btw, are you in the refinery business? Care too hook up a fellow forummer with a grad program space? I'm doing chemical engineering =x

Indeed I work for Caltex in projects (as a Civil Structural Project Manager) at the Lytton Refinery. Caltex certainly has a grad program (there's information on the Caltex au website), where are you located? I'm not sure if you're aware that Caltex Kurnell refinery will be closing in 2014 so I'd suggest if you're south of the QLD border, don't waste your time.

Edited by Wardski
xALmoN Grand Master

xALmoN

Posted
Posted

Indeed I work for Caltex in projects (as a Civil Structural Project Manager) at the Lytton Refinery. Caltex certainly has a grad program (there's information on the Caltex au website), where are you located? I'm not sure if you're aware that Caltex Kurnell refinery will be closing in 2014 so I'd suggest if you're south of the QLD border, don't waste your time.

well, i'm actually in vic, but i'm willing to travel to anywhere, so location isn't really all that important

bcl Contributor

bcl

Posted
Posted

Im on my 8th 44 gallon drum of E85 from United (Rozelle Sydney) since switching from Sucrogen. The lowest ethonal percentage I have seen is 93 (I test every drum)

Hey Kev, I have a Zietronix analyser in my STi. Reads consistently 85 to 87% out of Rozelle united.

STi_E85_guage.jpg

Brian

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