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Engineering with Aftermarket ECU

vlv00m

By vlv00m,
in Engines & Forced Induction

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vlv00m Apprentice

vlv00m

Posted
Posted

I'm pretty sure that you are unable to get your car engineered with an After Market ECU. (eg. Haltech, Wolf 3D, Microtech)

So how to people go about passing the engineer with the After Market ECU ?

I heard that you can get your aftermarket ECU tested for emissions, allowing you to pass it in engineering, but apparently this is very very expensive ($4,000)

I was thinking maybe to hide the After Market ECU somewhere else in the car, and go get the car engineered. Leaving the standard ECU in the foot well. And see if I get the car passed. Has anyone tried this ? did it work ?

If I can't get it passed. My Next question, do you think I will be able to start my car with the standard ECU with most of the sensors removed ?

As I'm in the process of putting a RB25 NEO into my VL, all the wiring hidden, and most of sensors will be removed, like the transaction control throttle body, boost control, knock sensor. It will still have the oil sensors, water temp, MAF sensor, OS sensor, just the bare basic's

Sorry about the long Thread, Thanks in advance

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Sydneykid Grand Master

Sydneykid

Posted
Posted

I don't think they have an emmissions test cell in the Act. So I suspect that all they will do for an engine swap inspection is check the numbers and make sure that nothing is stolen. Since you are putting a much "cleaner" current generation 2.5 litre engine in car that came with a 1986 "dirtier" 3 litre engine, I don't think there will be a problem.

Best answer, ask the inspectors what they will be checking.

browny Proficient

browny

Posted
Posted

Talk to a signatory or the relevant inspector that passes this sort of thing.

I have heard various theories about engineering ECU's but i'm not going to repeat any because it's all heresay and therefore may be misleading.

In any case my recommendation is that you don't play swapsies to get through engineering. Personally I can't see why anyone would ever do this. If you are going to go to the effort and cost of having something engineered, you might as well get all the mods signed off then and there so its all above board and you minimise the risk of problems later on (eg insurance or defects). Otherwise my view is that you are leaving yourself open to be liable because the car you are driving is effectively not road legal.

HKS34R Collaborator

HKS34R

Posted
Posted

I will be speaking to an engineer later this afternoon about getting my engine swap engineered and will ask him then. I have had an emissions test done on my last car before it was engineered, and the rta dude said that it would be fine once I get the car to pass the emissions test. However without the car actually passing an emissions test before I sold it, I can't confirm this.

However, would an engineer check for an aftermarket computer?? I have had my R34 fully engineered in the past and the engineer didn't even consider it!

Sydneykid Grand Master

Sydneykid

Posted
Posted
I have recieved feedback from a Engineer in NSW, saying that they wont pass a aftermarket ECU.

I will contact some Engineer's in ACT and check with them

It's going in a VL Commondoor, so the "standard" VL ECU won't work. It's an RB25DET NEO engine, they were never emmisions tested here as they weren't sold here. So what isn't an "aftermarket" ECU in this case? The VL ECU is "aftermarket" to the engine and the RB25DET ECU is "aftermarket" to the VL.

So you have to ask the question of the engineer correctly, don't ask "is an aftermarket ECU OK?" Ask "which of the two ECU's do you suggest?" Since neither will work, then he has to say aftermarket is OK as long as it passes the emmmisions test.

Whether or not it passes the emmisions test is the real question, it shouldn't matter how you get there. :D

browny Proficient

browny

Posted
Posted
It's going in a VL Commondoor, so the "standard" VL ECU won't work. It's an RB25DET NEO engine, they were never emmisions tested here as they weren't sold here. So what isn't an "aftermarket" ECU in this case? The VL ECU is "aftermarket" to the engine and the RB25DET ECU is "aftermarket" to the VL.

The ECU is considered to be part of the engine, as is the exhaust, intake tract, fuel tank and any pollution devices. So the "standard" ECU is the one that comes with the engine from the factory.

Whether or not it passes the emmisions test is the real question, it shouldn't matter how you get there.

I agree but in reality it depends on the engineer and how they interpret the ADR's. I have heard the arguement that the adjustable nature of an aftermarket ECU means some engineers will never allow one to be passed because of the way they read the rules.

INASNT Grand Master

INASNT

Posted
Posted
If he knows it's there he should be interested because the ECU impacts on emissions.

But an aftermarket ecu also tuned properly can pass emmision tests.

But i see your point as the tune can be easily altered after passing the test. So how does the engineering report cover this issue?

Sydneykid Grand Master

Sydneykid

Posted
Posted
The ECU is considered to be part of the engine, as is the exhaust, intake tract, fuel tank and any pollution devices. So the "standard" ECU is the one that comes with the engine from the factory.

I agree but in reality it depends on the engineer and how they interpret the ADR's. I have heard the arguement that the adjustable nature of an aftermarket ECU means some engineers will never allow one to be passed because of the way they read the rules.

What if the RB25DET he is using is from an auto, then he can't use the "standard ECU". VL ECU's are tunable anyway, so if he could use one of those he would be able to tune it just like any aftermarket ECU. Even LS1 ECU's are tunable these days (via LS1 EDIT) , does that mean you can't engineer a Commondoor with a standard one of those?

You are right, it unltimately depends on the engineer. But it also depends on how you approach the problem with them as well. :D

Sydneykid Grand Master

Sydneykid

Posted
Posted
But an aftermarket ecu also tuned properly can pass emmision tests.  

But i see your point as the tune can be easily altered after passing the test. So how does the engineering report cover this issue?

The engineering report is done as at the time the car was presented. It is exactly the same as turning up with standard wheels and then swapping then over later. When he checked it, it passed that's why the engineeering report is timed and dated. :D

Sydneykid Grand Master

Sydneykid

Posted
Posted
So an engineers report is basically the same as a bodgy roadworthy!! :D

Well no, it is a little more detailed and requires considerably more knowledge and testing. But what else can the poor engineer be expected to do, follow you around and make sure you don't change anything? :headspin:

browny Proficient

browny

Posted
Posted

Disclaimer: I am just arguing here because i'm an engineer and I like to argue. What i'm actually saying might be completely incorrect.

What if the RB25DET he is using is from an auto, then he can't use the "standard ECU". VL ECU's are tunable anyway, so if he could use one of those he would be able to tune it just like any aftermarket ECU. Even LS1 ECU's are tunable these days (via LS1 EDIT) , does that mean you can't engineer a Commondoor with a standard one of those?

If I was a signatory I would argue thus...

If the RB25 he is using is an auto he needs to use the auto ECU. If he wants to use a manual he needs to use a manual ECU. Otherwise he could prove the auto and manual maps are identical and use either.

I would argue that it is not only the physical box that constitutes an ECU but also the factory maps. Therefore if you change the maps from factory, you are no longer emissions compliant until you prove otherwise.

I don't know anything about modern commodores, is LS1 EDIT released, supported and endorsed by Holden?

I will contact my local engineer to get another perspective.

discopotato03 Grand Master

discopotato03

Posted
Posted

SK do they have a prob with RB30DET's not being a factory option ? Most are probably not aware if it looks factory and evaprative , breather etc ancilliaries are connected and working . I doubt many engineers would witness the computer , if you tell them its factory that's what the report will state .

Cheers A .

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