Get Rich Quick Scheme

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

get rich quick scheme #298

I have a decent amount of money invested, and I was thinking the other day of other ways to invest it. I was actually thinking of getting an investment property.

Im currently importing a car through j-spec and I'm probably saving a good $3-4k on the overall purchase (which is probably costing me around $10k). Since the 15 year rule is about to change, the thought crossed my mind of importing 3 or 4 R32 GTR Skylines under the 15 year rule in the next month or two and getting the road registered and then flogging them off.

The prices on sites like J-spec and Prestige work out on average around $20,000.00 landed for a GTR with a few mods, less than 100,000ks and in pretty good condition. Realistically they will probably cost more like $23,000 after compliance, modifications to get roadworthy, registration and general fix-up to get sold. If i find the car myself and don't use j-spec or prestige i can save $1k on their fee.

There aren't many R32's for sale on sites like carsales.com.au and most of them have pretty high km's. What price could would I expect to be able to sell one at here, and how easy are GTR's to sell privatly? If the 15 year rule becomes a lot more restrictive, i might be in quite a good position if i sell them after january.

Also, how many cars can i buy and sell before im classed as a dealer? What are the tax implications!?

Interested on hearing people comments,

-Cheers.

[P1E]

As far as I know, you are classed as a dealer when you sell a certain number of cars within 12 months. I think the magic number is around ten.

It seems like a fairly high risk venture for fairly average returns though. Maybe you would be better suited to a casino.

[martydaman]

you say your gonna buy 4 GTR's at $20,000 a piece... aint worth it. With that cash you can get a good investment property with a small sized mortgage. Im thinking maybe a unit or a flat which have good returns for rent. The risk of importing cars is too big when you can get just as good returns with property, but without the risk.

[666DAN]

Invest with ING at 10% p.a, sit back and relax

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

hmm, im probably going to go with property, just thought i'd float the idea

so who here has sold an R32 GTR (without too many major mods) recently and how much did u get for it?

[aybee]

  666DAN said:

Invest with ING at 10% p.a, sit back and relax

since when do ING offer 10%. that would have to be the higest gauranteed return offered anywhere in the world. last i checked they were 4.1 or something. and there are a few others that offer a little more.

but yeah what others said. i personally wouldnt pay 25grand for 89. stick with property or maybe start a pyramid scheme

[meshmesh]

  666DAN said:

Invest with ING at 10% p.a, sit back and relax

Let me work this out..

80K.. Investment with ING

8K return p/a (that's if this return doesn't fluctuate)

less fees and charges

Deduct your tax from that 8K return (30%) = $2400 Federal Tax

Total: $5600.. hmm so really your making 7% return not that good I say,

(This is all rough and vage, I'm not an accountant, that's why we pay them to work this out)

Invest 80K in bricks and mortar: Based on a deposit of 20% or more to avoid mortgage insurance, means you can buy something upto $400K...

Lets say, it's a spanking brand new property (your already infront by saving aroun $20,000 on stamp duty)

1. rent it out.. at ~$350pw work a little harder and chip in the monthy balance around ~$200pw

2. over the next 5 years you can claim back your depreciation (dunno exactly) but probably around another $50-100K...

3. by then your property would have increased in market value by at say 20-30%, which means you've made around another $80-120K on your initial investment...

4. And finally you can claim back all that interest & depreciation rather than ~paying it to gov.

5. after a couple of years and a little EQUITY MATE, you can buy another one, and another one, and another, all on EQUITY MATE (and ofcourse) your ability to meet the repayments.

Bit busy to exactly work it out the ROI.. but over a 5 year period I'm guessing including your tax benefits, and EQUITY MATE, on an initial $80K investment your return would be at least 100-150K on top of your $80 = Total 180-230K...

Let me see ING do that... you would have made around $25K with ING.. So I'm not sure I would be exactly "relaxed" knowing my money is with them.

If I were single, and worried about the "future" wife who's only in it for the $$$ and laying her hands on all this I would set up a Pty Ltd Company as a trustee for a family trust with my father/mother as the appointee.. PS: being a new property there is also the ability to claim back the GST component out of the initial $400K ~around $37K hmmmm.

But again, I'm just bord and ranting full on crap, and this could all be just a load of bollocks written by some internet warrior like me. so it's best you just ignore this post cause I'm not responsible for noone.. go and see a proffessional.

[wrxhoon]

  MerlinTheHapyPig said:

get rich quick scheme #298

I have a decent amount of money invested, and I was thinking the other day of other ways to invest it.  I was actually thinking of getting an investment property.

Im currently importing a car through j-spec and I'm probably saving a good $3-4k on the overall purchase (which is probably costing me around $10k).   Since the 15 year rule is about to change, the thought crossed my mind of importing 3 or 4  R32 GTR Skylines under the 15 year rule in the next month or two and getting the road registered and then flogging them off.

The prices on sites like J-spec and Prestige work out on average around $20,000.00 landed for a GTR with a few mods, less than 100,000ks and in pretty good condition.  Realistically they will probably cost more like $23,000 after compliance, modifications to get roadworthy, registration and general fix-up to get sold.  If i find the car myself and don't use j-spec or prestige i can save $1k on their fee.

There aren't many R32's for sale on sites like carsales.com.au and most of them have pretty high km's.  What price could would I expect to be able to sell one at here, and how easy are GTR's to sell privatly?    If the 15 year rule becomes a lot more restrictive, i might be in quite a good position if i sell them after january.

Also, how many cars can i buy and sell before im classed as a dealer? What are the tax implications!?

Interested on hearing people comments,

-Cheers.

you are classed as a dealer even if you only sell one car , if the intention was to buy and sell for proffit ( hard to prove if you only sold 1 car ) .

rta will be asking you questions if you sold more than 4 cars in a year and you have to prove that the intention was for personal use then you changed your mind ( hard to convince if you only kept them a couple of months each ).

very risky to bring 4 gtrs and thinking you can make money on them when there is plenty importers that will do it for you for say $1000 and you will have your money earnig you nothing until you sell the cars , leave it for the pros .

if and when the 15 yo rule goes i know of at least one place that are thinking of getting a license under rows for r32 's , then they will be able to do all r32 's not just 89 mods . it will cost a little more sure but post 92 cars are more desirable .

dont forget that the low k's you see on jap imports are because they turn the oddos back , i've seen and r34 gtt go to auction in japan with 229 k k's on the oddo , i wonder how many it will have if it was brought to australia 29 ? 39 ? 49 ?

i bet no more .

dont forget after january 1 the import duty drops as well !

property ? yea its a good long term investment but units at the moment are well overpriced , if you can cope with a short term value drop go with it but i would go for a house if i was you in a good location .

shares in blue chip co's is another good option but only buy blue chip not speculative shares .

[INASNT]

  meshmesh said:

Let me work this out..

80K.. Investment with ING

8K return p/a (that's if this return doesn't fluctuate)

less fees and charges  

Deduct your tax from that 8K return (30%) = $2400 Federal Tax

Total: $5600.. hmm so really your making 7% return not that good I say,

(This is all rough and vage, I'm not an accountant, that's why we pay them to work this out)

Invest 80K in bricks and mortar: Based on a deposit of 20% or more to avoid mortgage insurance, means you can buy something upto $400K...

Lets say, it's a spanking brand new property (your already infront by saving aroun $20,000 on stamp duty)

1. rent it out.. at ~$350pw work a little harder and chip in the monthy balance around ~$200pw

2. over the next 5 years you can claim back your depreciation (dunno exactly) but probably around another $50-100K...

3. by then your property would have increased in market value by at say 20-30%, which means you've made around another $80-120K on your initial investment...

4. And finally you can claim back all that interest & depreciation rather than ~paying it to gov.

5. after a couple of years and a little EQUITY MATE, you can buy another one, and another one, and another, all on EQUITY MATE (and ofcourse) your ability to meet the repayments.

Bit busy to exactly work it out the ROI.. but over a 5 year period I'm guessing including your tax benefits, and EQUITY MATE, on an initial $80K investment your return would be at least 100-150K on top of your $80 = Total 180-230K...

Let me see ING do that... you would have made around $25K with ING.. So I'm not sure I would be exactly "relaxed" knowing my money is with them.

If I were single, and worried about the "future" wife who's only in it for the $$$ and laying her hands on all this I would set up a Pty Ltd Company as a trustee for a family trust with my father/mother as the appointee.. PS: being a new property there is also the ability to claim back the GST component out of the initial $400K ~around $37K hmmmm.

But again, I'm just bord and ranting full on crap, and this could all be just a load of bollocks written by some internet warrior like me. so it's best you just ignore this post cause I'm not responsible for noone.. go and see a proffessional.

So thats how you made all that money hey??

[GTSpec]

lol obviously someones still poor... thats the dumbest idea ever

[The Jake]

  P1E said:

As far as I know, you are classed as a dealer when you sell a certain number of cars within 12 months. I think the magic number is around ten.  

Try one.

- J.

[The Jake]

  meshmesh said:

Let me work this out..

80K.. Investment with ING

8K return p/a (that's if this return doesn't fluctuate)

less fees and charges  

Deduct your tax from that 8K return (30%) = $2400 Federal Tax

Total: $5600.. hmm so really your making 7% return not that good I say,

(This is all rough and vage, I'm not an accountant, that's why we pay them to work this out)

Invest 80K in bricks and mortar: Based on a deposit of 20% or more to avoid mortgage insurance, means you can buy something upto $400K...

Lets say, it's a spanking brand new property (your already infront by saving aroun $20,000 on stamp duty)

1. rent it out.. at ~$350pw work a little harder and chip in the monthy balance around ~$200pw

2. over the next 5 years you can claim back your depreciation (dunno exactly) but probably around another $50-100K...

3. by then your property would have increased in market value by at say 20-30%, which means you've made around another $80-120K on your initial investment...

4. And finally you can claim back all that interest & depreciation rather than ~paying it to gov.

5. after a couple of years and a little EQUITY MATE, you can buy another one, and another one, and another, all on EQUITY MATE (and ofcourse) your ability to meet the repayments.

Bit busy to exactly work it out the ROI.. but over a 5 year period I'm guessing including your tax benefits, and EQUITY MATE, on an initial $80K investment your return would be at least 100-150K on top of your $80 = Total 180-230K...

Let me see ING do that... you would have made around $25K with ING.. So I'm not sure I would be exactly "relaxed" knowing my money is with them.

If I were single, and worried about the "future" wife who's only in it for the $$$ and laying her hands on all this I would set up a Pty Ltd Company as a trustee for a family trust with my father/mother as the appointee.. PS: being a new property there is also the ability to claim back the GST component out of the initial $400K ~around $37K hmmmm.

But again, I'm just bord and ranting full on crap, and this could all be just a load of bollocks written by some internet warrior like me. so it's best you just ignore this post cause I'm not responsible for noone.. go and see a proffessional.

This is why he drives an R34 GTR. Recognise.

- J.

[open24hours]

You'll never make more money than you will dealing drugs, maybe guns and bombs too.

[LBR33]

If you are interested in a new investment property PM me

[aybee]

  meshmesh said:

Let me work this out..

80K.. Investment with ING

8K return p/a (that's if this return doesn't fluctuate)

less fees and charges  

Deduct your tax from that 8K return (30%) = $2400 Federal Tax

Total: $5600.. hmm so really your making 7% return not that good I say,

(This is all rough and vage, I'm not an accountant, that's why we pay them to work this out)

Invest 80K in bricks and mortar: Based on a deposit of 20% or more to avoid mortgage insurance, means you can buy something upto $400K...

Lets say, it's a spanking brand new property (your already infront by saving aroun $20,000 on stamp duty)

1. rent it out.. at ~$350pw work a little harder and chip in the monthy balance around ~$200pw

2. over the next 5 years you can claim back your depreciation (dunno exactly) but probably around another $50-100K...

3. by then your property would have increased in market value by at say 20-30%, which means you've made around another $80-120K on your initial investment...

4. And finally you can claim back all that interest & depreciation rather than ~paying it to gov.

5. after a couple of years and a little EQUITY MATE, you can buy another one, and another one, and another, all on EQUITY MATE (and ofcourse) your ability to meet the repayments.

Bit busy to exactly work it out the ROI.. but over a 5 year period I'm guessing including your tax benefits, and EQUITY MATE, on an initial $80K investment your return would be at least 100-150K on top of your $80 = Total 180-230K...

Let me see ING do that... you would have made around $25K with ING.. So I'm not sure I would be exactly "relaxed" knowing my money is with them.

If I were single, and worried about the "future" wife who's only in it for the $$$ and laying her hands on all this I would set up a Pty Ltd Company as a trustee for a family trust with my father/mother as the appointee.. PS: being a new property there is also the ability to claim back the GST component out of the initial $400K ~around $37K hmmmm.

But again, I'm just bord and ranting full on crap, and this could all be just a load of bollocks written by some internet warrior like me. so it's best you just ignore this post cause I'm not responsible for noone.. go and see a proffessional.

that sounds all well and good. but your comparing 20-30% increase over 5 years to over 50% (acummulating interest) over 5 years with ING (thats assuming ING offers 10%pa, which im pretty sure it doesnt). you could borrow the same amount of money and put it into the fund, and not have outgoings like property does. and im pretty sure you can claim against the borrowings in a similar way you can with the property. so all in all ING at 10% is a safer bet.

im not saying dont go for property, im just saying its not as easy as that. i would personally go for the property option, but it must be treated as a long term investment. im not a property knocker, its just a hard thing to get into, thats why not everyone is a property investor and only some are succesful.

[meshmesh]

Hi aybee, don't wanna get into a biyatch fight..but???

:confused: :confused: :confused:

I think you may need to double check your post... that definately doesn't make any sense to me at least.

EDIT: Ok I had to read it about 5-6 times..

My reply is simple: You have to be kidding!...

You want to borrow money to invest in a fund?? you're borrow at 6,7 ~% (if you're lucky) and what security will they lend you the money on?? all that for a return of 10% deduct all your fees, interest, tax on CGT~ to end up with 1% maybe 2% profit????????? CPI moves quicker than that every 3months..

and how did you get 50% accumulating interest?

[zymotic]

Don't know which ING account your talking about but Savings Maximiser is 5.25% and Managed Fund not much more last I remember.

Yea but definately a no, no to importing old GTR's - cars are not an investment, well almost never.

Seems property is a good way to go, gain enough equity purchase the next one and so on. I guess your reducing the risk by having more links in the chain but perhaps increasing it too. Tax refunds can help pay the interest and if you get into trouble sell one of the properties and consolidate.

Seems that the housing market in QLD is moving towards a buyers market has been a sellers for a while. Don't expect prices to go back to pre-boom figures again. No more cheap houses in QLD - well not just over $100k cheap anyway.

I'm gonna have to leave the Skyline world and start gaining some equity. Ain't gonna be pensions when we are geezers I don't think.

[aybee]

like zymotic said ING doesnt give 10% but like your calculations i assumed that it did.

theres not much difference between borrowing to put money in a fund than borrowing to put into property. except ING is a set return.

50% accumulated comes from 10% for the first year, plus 10% for the second, etc, for 5 years. its accumulated because its earning interest on interest, so it works out to slightly more than 50% for the 5 years.

compared to your example of 20-30% for the five years.

you said that you can earn x amount from property and only y amount from a fund. but you can only earn x by borrowing. so if you borrowed and put money in both, then with the above figures the fund would still on top, even after taking out fees.

BUT the key here is that no fund offers that much. and when you say that a return of only 7% is not that good. Well thats pretty standard when you look around at whats happening. example: melbourne rental market is running at around 4%pa at the moment. so returns are quite low.

im just saying that you have to be careful with property cause alot of people view it as easy money. but its not. eg: Docklands in melbourne has alot of "mum and dad" investors upset cause the values have dipped. thats cause they expected the values to rise magically. but they dont always rise in the short term. but you can be sure they will in the long term.

[meshmesh]

Hi aybee,

WTF :confused:

you're numbers are all wrong... and taken out of contex the 4% is only based on the rental return compared to the property value, it does not take into the equasion, your tax benifits, ongoing property appreciation (equity), etc etc... so it actually equates to much much more than that..

OK.. I'd like to see your example comparison starting with a savings of something reasonable like $40K, over a period of 5 years... your fund vs a property worth $200K.. because you have honestly lost me with your numbers they just don't make sense at all.

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

hey, thanks for all the replys!

it was just a thought. I have a new get rich quick scheme every week!

Investement property is still the way to go

I figure,

Find a house $400k ish

$40k deposit interest only loan

So you pay 7% interest on $360k = $25,200/year = $484 / week

At current market rates, i could probaly get $350 / week rent

the remainder $134 / week comes out of my own pocket.

This counts as loss so it is a tax deduction which is about $7000.

Property value doubles every 7 years. So in 2011 the house is worth $800,000, i have a loan of $360,000.00, and my tenant is paying $700/week rent. Which is covering the interest on the loan and earning me $216 a week. I can either draw down on the loan to get some cash, or use the equity to buy more investment propertys.

There is also risk here:

Interest rate rises - if they go up from 7% to say 9% - that's an extra $140/week that i need to provide

No Tenant - have to be able to afford periods with no tenant for a while

Property Maintenence - have to factor in maintenence costs.

You picked a crap area - need to do research to make sure property will appreaciate at higher than average

But in the long term, property investment kicks ass.

Anyway, that's was my thoughts on negative gearing.

Im also thinking of doing a development, which is even more risky but the returns are plentiful. Ill let you know how i go!

And another thing, cars are one of the worst investments, but in the sense that you buy one and sell it in a few years you'll most likely loose money on it. However if you can get a car easily that's hard to find, you can get away with a generous markup. Im not sure if it will work on a skyline, but just a thought.

and comments like "thats the dumbest idea ever" don't really add much to the discussion, so shut the hell up :-)