powerfc + rb25det: questions

[paulr33]

Hi All,

I have two questions regarding powerfc for rb25det.

1) Does anyone have a value for the Air-Temp on the powerfc for rb25det. Mine shows --- and has never worked. Is this normal or am I missing a wire somewhere? Does anyone have this working or know how to get it working? I've noticed theres a "PowerFC Temperature Sensor Harness" available from greeline but no actual sensor? I emailed them and never got a response

2) My idle seems to be higher than what the powerfc is set to. Currently my powerfc is on 740 for both AC Idle and FC Idle. My idle is normally 850 ish. The other options for Idle are at 1100 and 1000. Even if I set all Idle's to 1000 it never seems to honour it and just runs it at 850ish all the time. I've noticed under monitor my water temp is always 78. It hardly ever goes above 80. Even hard runs on 35deg days its always 78, very rarely even 79deg. When I check out water temp correction theres a break point for 80deg and one for 50deg. Because my water-temp never hits 80deg the powerfc would be honouring the +50deg correction. I've noticed this is like 1.05 instead of 1.00 for 80deg. Would this result in advanced idle? What else would the correction of 1.05 affect? Or does the powerfc apply that 1.05 correction to all maps because the engine water is colder so it has to add more fuel, spark, timing, ignition or is the correction just for fuel as an example? I don't remember the exact correction valve so it may not be 1.05 I'm pretty sure its around there. Just wondering if I should set the 50deg correction to the same as the 80deg as my car never hits 80deg

*** PowerFC software now commercial? ***

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The software is compatable with OS windows98,ME,2000 and XP.

Only the Hand commander 415 X001 is suitable with the software. The H/C 415-N001 is not suitable.

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[Robo's]

Why dont you try changing the water temp value from 50+ to 1.00. My water temp sits around the 81 degrees, but ive changed the 50+ value to 1.00 anyway. This may help your idle.

[paulr33]

yeah ill give it a shot, just wanna know what else it may affect

[cameron]

It affects idle and if its too rich/lean you will get hunting, on 2 different car's with both PFC i've seen by making adjustments to the water temp correction

Idle Go up - With adding more fuel 80º - 1.10

Hunting @ idle 80º - 1.00

This depends on the fuel map's tune if its tuned lean enough on the map to get hunting on idle I found that by making adjustments up stops this hunting - 80º, Over rich tune on the fuel map at idle with give you low idle by adjusting it down for 80º this improves the idle.

80º = And example as this depends on what you'r operating sits on.

Q1)

The GTS-T don't come with a Inlet temp sensor unfortunatly only the GTR does

[Guilt-Toy]

I too want to have air temp sensor on my PFC. Can someone please tell us whats involved on getting this to work.

Do you buy the attatchment and use an rx7 air temp sensor??? or wot?

[Chris Wilson]

AFAIK you can just add the R32 / R33 / R34 GTR air temp sensor that's in the GTR plenum, to the plenum of the GTS-t, wire it up to the Power FC and map it the offsets you want V temp.

[fresh]

does it offer manyt benefits ?

[paulr33]

temp sensor)

Thanks for reply. Yeah i thought it was GTR option only. Im wondering if it can be made to work by either getting the GTR sensor or getting a 3rd party sensor (as long as it returned the same signal). Thanks for your help/advice I will try and work out a temp sensor hookup. Would it by a special type of sensor for the temp or they're like a universal one from like jaycar or something>?

water temp)

My idle is never what the commander is set to and I noticed my water was always just below 80 so it was using a correction of 1.10 and 1.15 whereas for 80deg its 1.00 1.00 for both. I was sure it only affected settings to "warm" the engine up as such and may affect idle. I have seen slighty better results now with 1.00 correction for the 50deg value as my water temp never gets to 80, its always 1 or 2deg below. However I am now experiencing idle hunt since i've made that change, one time it went as low as 650rpm and was at stall point. The idle hunt isn't all the time and appears to be a bit erractic. The powerfc I think tries to correct it and change the idle rate too quickly (at least my educated guess). I wasn't really trying to solve anything just noticed I never got to 80deg and remember the water temp page had settings for 50deg and higher, then another for 80deg. I then realised that Im never getting to that 80deg value cos im always just below it.

[fresh]

u got an aftermarket thermostat in there ??? mine gets to max 80 deg on a hot day with a bit of a flog, mostly sits on about 75ish so yeah....

[paulr33]

nah just the stock thermostat. i hardly ever see 80deg. anyway ive set both to 1.00 correction. wire 36 on the rb26 goes to the gtr temp sensor. wire 36 on the rb25 loom goes nowhere (according to several diagrams ive checked). any ideas on if i could get a standard air temp sensor and use it or is there a generic type or i could get a 2nd hand gtr item i guess and try it. my only concern was on the rb25 wiring diagram i found wire 36 or at least pin out 36 goes to "FICD" realy. Anyone know what this is or if its an incorrect diagram as the writing is hard to read. the diagram is r33english.jpg

[Sydneykid]

nah just the stock thermostat. i hardly ever see 80deg. anyway ive set both to 1.00 correction. wire 36 on the rb26 goes to the gtr temp sensor. wire 36 on the rb25 loom goes nowhere (according to several diagrams ive checked). any ideas on if i could get a standard air temp sensor and use it or is there a generic type or i could get a 2nd hand gtr item i guess and try it. my only concern was on the rb25 wiring diagram i found wire 36 or at least pin out 36 goes to "FICD" realy. Anyone know what this is or if its an incorrect diagram as the writing is hard to read. the diagram is r33english.jpg

My best suggestion is to have a look on your own car, it only takes a couple of minutes to remove the kick panel. On the Stagea, it has no wire in #36 on the connector.

[paulr33]

hi sk and others,

i had a look i have a wire in pin 36 but nothing in 35 34 and 37

34 35 37 on the rb26 ecu goto the 2nd afm, 2nd oxygen sensor and one of the other sensors associated with the twin inlet system on the gtr. pin 36 on the rb26 is the temp sensor. my theory was the powerfc will try and read it regardless as the hand controller is displaying it but just as ----. so my hope was the ecr33 powerfc still had the code and logic present just no sensor. pin36 i mean by looking at the ecu whilst it is bolted in and connected, 6th pin on left side from middle. its a light grey wire but i have no idea where it goes. what year is your stagea sk and is it a series 2 rb25 ? wire 36 according to the wiring diagram is the ficd (fast idle control device)

[Sydneykid]

Ooooops sorry, I should have mentioned that the Stagea has R34 ECU pin outs. And #36 is certainly blank.

With the Datalogit I can see the correction table for air temperature on the Power FC RB25DET settings. This is the same as on the RB20DET settings and it certainly works, I have the GTR top end on the RB31 and it uses the standard R32GTR air temp sensor. I just ran a wire to the blank spot on the ecu connector. I couldn't see the correction table on the Commander though, but the Datalogit has no such problem.

Can you see the air temp correction table on the R33 GTST Commander?

[paulr33]

No problems. Well I have ecr33 powerfc the new model that came with hand controller from nengun. The hand controller under Monitor shows

InjDuty

IgnTmng

AirFlow

Eng Rev

Speed

Boost

Knock

WtrTemp

AirTemp

BatVolt

Under setting I have

Ign Map

Inj Map

AirFlow

Injector

Boost

Acceler.

Ign/Inj

Cranking

Wtr Temp

Rev/Idle

If I choose to monitor AirTemp its always ----- deg.

I know the GTR plenum has an intake air temp sensor. I have the RB25 plenum and i was hoping to get a stock thermisotr from jaycar and use that and feed its signal to wire 36 and hope the powerfc would just display the value. Then I wouldnt need a seperate temp sensor (which is no problem $20 from jaycar) would have been handy as the value was in the same spot as the other stuff, even if the temp sensor was in the airbox etc and not neccessarily on the plenum

[paulr33]

I cant see the temp correction table, at a guess it would be under setting.

Does it show the value under Monitor on yours with your mentioned setup?

[Sydneykid]

On the Datalogit (for all 7 of the RB25DET PFC software versions) the air temp correction table is on the same page as the water temp correction table. I get readings and the correction table functions on the RB20DET Power FC.

[paulr33]

Ok in the FCEdit software yeah the temp settings are on Settings 2 Inj Vs Air Temp.

I have the software but no cable or connector. My Powerfc hand controller doesnt have any of those settings (for air temp) under Setting. My WaterTemp table in the hand controller on has water temp settings. What happens on one of your rb25det's if you choose Monitor, 1 Channel and choose Air Temp. Do you get a value? If so what ecu are you using and where is the value coming from?

I dont want to control the inj settings based on air temp, i merely only want to display a value under Monitor so I can easily see what air temp intake is or airbox temp is without buying an external sensor

[paulr33]

Hi SK,

Did you get a chance to check under Monitor on one of your rb25's. I know its a long shot but would love to have the AirTemp working, plus a few other members would love to see if theres a way to get it working

[Sydneykid]

Hi SK,

 

Did you get a chance to check under Monitor on one of your rb25's. I know its a long shot but would love to have the AirTemp working, plus a few other members would love to see if theres a way to get it working

I like that "one of your rb25's" , at the moment I only have 1 X RB25 and that's in the Stagea. It's an auto, so no Power FC in it (unfortunately). Let me reinterate what I know from previous practical experience;

I have used a GTR inlet air temp sensor on an R32GTST Power FC. I used the GTR air temp sensor because I figured it woudl be the right range and resistance ramp to give accurate temperatures. I had to run one extra wire as there was no provision in the wiring harness for an air temp sensor. I connected it to #36 on the R32GTST ECU plug. I can program the air temp correction table with the Datalogit, and I can log the temperatures. On the Commander, in Monitor mode, when I select Air Temp I can see the readings.

On an R33GST Power FC (all 7 software versions), I can program the air temp correction table with the Datalogit. The initialised settings on the Power FC have no air temp correstion ie; they are all set at 100. This is the same as R34GTT, R32GTR, R33GTR and R32GTST.

So, I see no reason to believe that the R33GTST Commander would read any different (it is the same Commander as most Nissans). It will only take a few minutes to connect one wire and test it. You don't have to buy an air temp sensor, parrallel it up to the water temp sensor. The range is similar, it may not read accurately but at least you will know that it works.

If you do get it working, then I would suggest using the air temp correction table, it is a good feature.

Hope that is of some help.

[paulr33]

hey sk,

sorry i thought you access to a few rb25s with powerfcs, sorry for assuming. I still want to continue and get this working just no idea where i can connnect to the temp sensor too as wire 36 is connected and according to the diagram its ficd relay