What type of Intercooler

[marc2]

There is a vast choice of 'after market intercoolers' in the market place. If one was to look at replacing their intercooler, what would be one of the better choices? Is a 'bar and plate' configuration superior to a 'tube and fin'? The second half of the question is - has anyone had any experience in relation to the efficiency of one make of cooler over another?

[Sydneykid]

Hi Marc2, plenty written on this, maybe do a search for more details. My 20 cents worth follows;

There are 4 important things to consider when choosing an intercooler;

1. Cooling the inlet airflow (this effects the temperaturee of the inlet air)

2. The effect of the intercooler on the radiator (this effects the water temp of the engine)

3. The efficiency in passing inlet airflow through the intercooler (this is a measure of how much pressure loss there is across the core)

4. It's internal volume (this effects the throttle response of the engine)

No one intercooler is superior in all 4 areas, they all are compromises. An example, a 600 X 300 X 100 bar and plate is good in #1 and #3 but bad in #2 and very bad in #4. The standard Stagea intercooler is good in #4 and #2, not so good in #1 and very bad in #3.

I have chosen a standard R34GTT intercooler, to keep #2 and #4 at good, improve #3 a lot and improve #1 a little bit. That set of compromises suites my Stagea usage.

On the race car we use a 600 X 300 X 100 tube and fin. It is good in #1 and #2, OK in #4 and we have a big enough turbo not to be concerned about #3.

My personal favourite all rounder is the standard R33/34 GTR intercooler. Up to 300 rwkw they are very hard to beat.

Hope that was of some help:cheers:

[marc2]

Hi Marc2, plenty written on this, maybe do a search for more details.  My 20 cents worth follows;

There are 4 important things to consider when choosing an intercooler;

1. Cooling the inlet airflow (this effects the temperaturee of the inlet air)

2. The effect of the intercooler on the radiator (this effects the water temp of the engine)

3. The efficiency in passing inlet airflow through the intercooler (this is a measure of how much pressure loss there is across the core)

4. It's internal volume (this effects the throttle response of the engine)

No one intercooler is superior in all 4 areas, they all are compromises.  An example, a 600 X 300 X 100 bar and plate is good in #1 and #3 but bad in #2 and very bad in #4.  The standard Stagea intercooler is good in #4 and #2, not so good in #1 and very bad in #3.

I have chosen a standard R34GTT intercooler, to keep #2 and #4 at good, improve #3 a lot and improve #1 a little bit.  That set of compromises suites my Stagea usage.

On the race car we use a 600 X 300 X 100 tube and fin.   It is good in #1 and #2, OK in #4 and we have a big enough turbo not to be concerned about #3.

My personal favourite all rounder is the standard R33/34 GTR intercooler.  Up to 300 rwkw they are very hard to beat.

Hope that was of some help:cheers:

SK,

You are most helpful with your timely repsonses and the information provided - greatly appreciated.

Have sent a PM.

regards,

Marc2

[Brazen]

Another FMIC question... looking at the Blitz LM Intercooler kit for Stageas coz its on sale with Nengun for $1090. However from my understanding (limited!) its best to get a FMIC that doesnt return the piping UNDER the intercooler (a sharp 180 degree bent pipe isnt best airflow apparently?)... can anyone work out from this picture if these Blitz intercooler kits are the kind that has the piping return under the intercooler, or if its the better setup with piping that heads up over the top?

[Brazen]

Another FMIC question... looking at the Blitz LM Intercooler kit for Stageas coz its on sale with Nengun for $1090.  However from my understanding (limited!) its best to get a FMIC that doesnt return the piping UNDER the intercooler (a sharp 180 degree bent pipe isnt best airflow apparently?)... can anyone work out from this picture if these Blitz intercooler kits are the kind that has the piping return under the intercooler, or if its the better setup with piping that heads up over the top?

I guess the second part to this question is - if this kit IS the type that returns under the intercooler - how "preferable" are we talking - is this type that returns under the intercooler just not worth doing - or just not AS good as the other piping set-up... it just seems a good price - and I'm after value for money rather than the absolute BEST setup.

[leech_]

i would say that one is not the return under as if you see the piping for the under ones either have a really sharp bend like 180 degree one and i have seen some IC's that actually have an outlet pipe sticking out the bottom of the IC not out the side like most converional ic's

[Brazen]

Thanks Leech - u r correct... it was funny but I answered my own question searching through all the Stagea pictures I downloaded months ago before deciding to buy - didnt remember downloading this one - but it shows the Blitz Stagea intercooler its not one with piping that returns under the FMIC lol

[Terminal]

I have the return under intercooler type, its 250 x 600 x 76. the best thing about this kit was not having to cut a massive hole in the car to fit piping. i had a thread about it a while back, it should still be around if you look. i took a few pictures of the process. it's a direct bolt on kit too, so no mucking around with piping. i noticed an improvement in engine response straight away, and havn't had any trouble with overheating due to the radiator being covered a bit more.

hope this helps with your choice.

[CoolPC]

I was mucking around with photoshop a bit because I was concerned about the placement of my numberplate once the FMIC arrives, but I reckon it'll look alright:

[Brazen]

If you stumble on this post SK... couple of questions for ya or anyone else with some info Id appreciate on 2 things

1. SK, you mentioned somewhere I read that one of your favourite all-round intercoolers (best combo of trade-offs) was the actual GTR intercoolers. Just wondering how easily you think these would be to fit to Stags. And as part of that question - is there much difference between R32/R33/R34 intercoolers that would make any version more adaptable. I might be able to pick up a cheap R32GTR FMIC - but not sure how easily Ill be able to fit and pipe it up to the Series 2 Stag?

2. Regarding Piping set-up options (left pipe return under FMIC style vs up and round head already discussed)... but i am wondering if the most direct flowing + least amount of piping setup, if you can be bothered and got $, is by getting a new plenum with a front facing throttle so that the left side piping from the FMIC can just go straight up to it... piccy here:

any thoughts on this type of set-up??? Or somewhere I can be pointed to for lengthy discussion and info on this sort of stuff to learn for myself?

Thanks heaps!

Adam

[Sydneykid]

If you stumble on this post SK... couple of questions for ya or anyone else with some info Id appreciate on 2 things

1.  SK, you mentioned somewhere I read that one of your favourite all-round intercoolers (best combo of trade-offs) was the actual GTR intercoolers.  Just wondering how easily you think these would be to fit to Stags.  And as part of that question - is there much difference between R32/R33/R34 intercoolers that would make any version more adaptable.  I might be able to pick up a cheap R32GTR FMIC - but not sure how easily Ill be able to fit and pipe it up to the Series 2 Stag?

2.  Regarding Piping set-up options (left pipe return under FMIC style vs up and round head already discussed)... but i am wondering if the most direct flowing + least amount of piping setup, if you can be bothered and got $, is by getting a new plenum with a front facing throttle so that the left side piping from the FMIC can just go straight up to it... piccy here:

 

any thoughts on this type of set-up???  Or somewhere I can be pointed to for lengthy discussion and info on this sort of stuff to learn for myself?

Thanks heaps!

 

Adam

Hi Adam, I stumbled......

1. The R32 intercooler is supposed to be slightly less efficient in internal airflow than the R33 or R34. The external dimensions and appearance are almost identical however. The generally accepted number is 300 rwkw from the R33/34 until we start to run into noticeable restriction. But I have run 420+rwkw though an R32 GTR intercooler and it was pretty damn good, better than many aftemarket coolers. However I was using a turbo and engine configuration that didn't require a lot of boost to make that sort of power.

I don't know what power target you are aiming for but I would be totally comfortable in using an R32 GTR intercooler up to 300 rwkw.

2. Oh dear! The old pipework question, I reckon the most often asked one on the forum. I have tested moved throttle bodies on standard plenums and the air distribution is terrible, personaly I wouldn't even think about it. If your power target is over 300 rwkw (that means forged rods and pistons) then the Greddy plenum is the one I would use. RIPS, UAS and Sub Zero have fabricated designs but they cost almost the same as the Greddy.

If you are sticking with standard internals, then the 120 degree bend at the throttle body style of intercooler pipework is the go. It takes a noticeable amount of volume out of the pipework (compared to behind the radiator or under the intercooler styles) without compromising the inlet distrbution.

I first saw this design on the Gibson R31 GTSR and over the years we have fitted it to a number of cars and it has been copied by quite a few pipework fabricators.

This is the latest generation

If you want to know more, I suggst doing a search, I have posted (numerous times) the calculations for the pipework volume and amount of delay in throttle response from various designs.

Hope that was of some help:cheers:

[Brazen]

Hope that was of some help  

Unbelievably helpful! :headspin:

[BoyWhoCriedWolf]

I have a gtr cooler fitted to mine. Pipework was bought off this forum for around $500 making the whole thing around $850. With that being said I probably would have prefered (now) to go for a hybrid kit as there is less stuffing around. I had to remove my washer bottle as well that is besides being annoying - illeagal. It did allow me to run the boost I wanted too and has improved the performance of the car at the end of the day.

Ken

[Brazen]

Hey SK or anyone else of course lol - one last piping question... Ive spent 2 days searching as you suggested, which has turned up loads of extra info - but not found out the exact answer I am looking for about these Blitz kits.

Know anything about where these Blitz kits (made specifically for the Neo6 set-up in the stags, and the equivalent kit for the R34GTT) run their pipework? Has any1 ever seen one or a pic of one hooked up to an R34 GTT?. I think it joins up to the stock pipework, but cant be sure... if it doesn then if it doesnt return UNDER the cooler - where does it go - behind? Does that still give a 180 deg bend??. But yeah - I cant work out exactly where it'll run... up and behind radiator or all up the passenger side existing pipes etc.

I am only heading towards this kit because the enquiries i've made with workshops over here about custom piping would mean cutting into the plastic Neo6 engine cover, fan baldes, removing stock air-box etc. If the Blitz kit works around everything in the engine bay without doing a straight 180 deg bend out of the FMIC outlet then I might just go with that...

[Sydneykid]

Hey SK or anyone else of course lol - one last piping question... Ive spent 2 days searching as you suggested, which has turned up loads of extra info - but not found out the exact answer I am looking for about these Blitz kits.

Know anything about where these Blitz kits (made specifically for the Neo6 set-up in the stags, and the equivalent kit for the R34GTT) run their pipework?  Has any1 ever seen one or a pic of one hooked up to an R34 GTT?.  I think it joins up to the stock pipework, but cant be sure... if it doesn then if it doesnt return UNDER the cooler - where does it go - behind? Does that still give a 180 deg bend??.  But yeah - I cant work out exactly where it'll run... up and behind radiator or all up the passenger side existing pipes etc.

I am only heading towards this kit because the enquiries i've made with workshops over here about custom piping would mean cutting into the plastic Neo6 engine cover, fan baldes, removing stock air-box etc.   If the Blitz kit works around everything in the engine bay without doing a straight 180 deg bend out of the FMIC outlet then I might just go with that...

The Blitz kit must be a return under/behind the intercooler style of pipework. It would be impossible for it to be any other design as they all need to have something cut. At the very least other pipework designs need the GTR stamped hole in the RHS innner guard to be cut out (same as a GTR has).

You should be aware that there is a Apexi GT-spec intercooler kit that does the same, I have seen one on a R34GTT.

[Burns]

I have a blitz kit on my Stag the piping runs under the car but does not have any 180 degree bends it looks like a very good piping design. It uses the stock holes but they have been enlarged on my car.

[Brazen]

Woohoo - thanks Burns and SK... finally know where that dam piping goes ... doesnt go directly back along the bottom of the core like others - but from your pics heads backwards and comes along behind the core...CHEERS !!

Hey Burns - so this looks like it could be a relatively easy Do It Yourselfer???

Thanks guys - most helpful!

:headspin:

[ICE12]

Hi ppl, Burn have you got a part number for the one in the pics. I to am interested in this type of FMIC.

Cheers ICE

[Brazen]

Blitz LM Intercooler Kit WGNC34 Part number 12331

$1093 + delivery from Nengun

http://www.nengun.com/catalogue/product/31

[Burns]

It looks like a reasonably easy install. All the brackets for the pipes have slotted bolt holes and the piping looks like it goes together easily enough. The cooler its self looks like it mounts on 3 brackets 2 on the bottom and 1 on top. The only tricky bits would be trimming the bumper reinforcement and a little bit of the bar bellow the indicators for the pipes to fit but should not require any more than marking it out and careful trimming with a jig saw with a steady hand.

I think you will probably have to do away with you air box too. Mine cam with a pod installed and I can’t see how an air box would have fitted in there. I’m still trying to work out how I’m going to fit a cold air partition in.