POWER FC vs SAFC2

[L 33]

Guys i have a r33 with a r32 hiflowed turbo rated at 450hp and im using a safc2 for the tuning. the car made 200rwkw @ 10psi, i want to ran 1 bar and get around 220rwk. i need to get a z32 afm as it is maxed out as is, now my question is, should i get a power fc to replace the safc or just keep it, is it going to make a major difference if i get a power fc? i dont want to spend big dollars on a new computer if its going to make stuff all difference. thanks

[Sydneykid]

Guys i have a r33 with a r32 hiflowed turbo rated at 450hp and im using a safc2 for the tuning. the car made 200rwkw @ 10psi, i want to ran 1 bar and get around 220rwk. i need to get a z32 afm as it is maxed out as is, now my question is, should i get a power fc to replace the safc or just keep it, is it going to make a major difference if i get a power fc? i dont want to spend big dollars on a new computer if its going to make stuff all difference. thanks

This subject has been discussed so many times, try a search for a more detailed answer.

1. No way the standard R33GTST AFM is maxing out at 200 rwkw, I have seen 230 rwkw on a number of cars.

2. There is no comparison, the Power FC will get you around 20 rwkw more max power and around 25 rwkw more average power. Less fuel consumption and the car will drive nicer and the engine last longer.

[RB30-POWER]

The PowerFC is a complete standalone managment solution. It can take you anywhere you want to go, with regards to engine mods.

The SAFC is just an interceptor module, bit like a bandaid solution. However can work sucessfully for minor gains.

In your case, if you want more power, the SAFC probally won't be able to get your motor much above the 200rwkw mark. As the ignition and fuelling will be way out of spec. Once your AFM maxes out you cant extend the injection time which will be needed with more boost.

[benl1981]

SK. WHen you say the engine will last longer with PowerFC ..what about if for some reason a boost contol hose comes off/perishes/boost contoller malfunction or wastegate actuator probem causing sudden huge increase in boost (over 30psi..). I believe the PFC does not have any engine protection. Whereas the stock ECU and SAFC will still rich and retard to protect engine. I guess you can control this by making sure all hoses etc are tight

I'm still considering between either the Jaycar version of the SAFC or a powerfc, for a lightly modded R33...with plans for no more than 175-190rwkw standard turbo 10psi, R34 intercooler, 3" exhaust

[RB30-POWER]

The SAFC won't rich and retard if you have the AFM voltage clamped with the interceptor.

Thats the idea. of it. Don't allow the ECU to see the real voltage.

It will still have active knock control though.

If you have a AFM with enough resolution, you could tune the PFC to use lots of fuel and retarted timing if the airflow goes over a certain map point not usally seen on the standard boost pressure.

So it can be tuned with overboost protection to some degree. In fact it will work just like the standard ecu, except you would set the zone higher on the map.

[benl1981]

Good idea. Yes I guess once it goes over say e.g 4.8volts you could richen up the mixture and retard timing a lot!!

If I was to use SAFC I would only use it to change the voltages slighlty not using FCD style approach..

[benl1981]

"Less fuel consumption and the car will drive nicer and the engine last longer."

Is this really true. So you think with the SAFC you will always be bordering on detonation hence it won't last as long?

I thought they were a reasonable compromise...

[Sydneykid]

SK.  WHen you say the engine will last longer with PowerFC ..what about if for some reason a boost contol hose comes off/perishes/boost contoller malfunction or wastegate actuator probem causing sudden huge increase in boost (over 30psi..).  I believe the PFC does not have any engine protection.  Whereas the stock ECU and SAFC will still rich and retard to protect engine.  I guess you can control this by making sure all hoses etc are tight  

I'm still considering between either the Jaycar version of the SAFC or a powerfc, for a lightly modded R33...with plans for no more than 175-190rwkw standard turbo 10psi,  R34 intercooler, 3" exhaust

That is simply not true, the PFC has as much engine protection as you want to tune into the fuel and ignition maps. Uncontrolled boost = excessive airflow. So tune the fuel to go rich when excessive arirflow is achieved. Ditto ignition, retard the crap out of it when excessive arirflow is achieved. As much (or as little) protection as you want. Asa back up, if you get excessive knock (whatever you decide is excessive), then the PFC will flash the dash warning light at you.

The Jaycar DFA is demonstably superior for 1/4 the price, as long as you can solder and read intructions. That said, I have the DFA because the Stagea is an auto, if it was a manual it would have a PFC. It is that easy a decision.

The SAFC won't rich and retard if you have the AFM voltage clamped with the interceptor.

That's what I call no protection, even the standard ECU won't save you then.

So you think with the SAFC you will always be bordering on detonation hence it won't last as long?  

I thought they were a reasonable compromise...

Compromise is the right word, you end up in a tuning circle. It needs to be leaner, but then it is too advanced. It needs more retard but it is already too rich. It is so easy to end up chasing your tail, striving for the best compromise. There is no compromise with a PFC, tune it exactly how you want, safe and powerful. And when you don't want the PFC anymore, you can sell it for not much less than you paid for it.

[benl1981]

So do you think your DFA is limiting the life of your engine?

You seem to have improved your fuel consumption a lot with the DFA - do you really think you could have done much better with the powerfc?

[Sydneykid]

#1 So do you think your DFA is limiting the life of your engine?  

#2 You seem to have improved your fuel consumption a lot with the DFA - do you really think you could have done much better with the powerfc?

#1. Very good question, I have compromiseed a lot of performance to make sure the Stagea engine is safe. After all it is the tow car and I need it to get to race meetings, so there are arguments that it has to be more reliable than the race car.

#2. Yep, good improvements from the DFA and truly great value for money. With the full tuning ability of the Power FC, I most certainly could have done quite a bit better, more power, more response and better fuel consumption

The bottom line is if it was a manual, it would have a Power FC in it.

[benl1981]

Most cars I here about with a powerfc aren't getting great economy though.

I guess you need to ensure at the tune that yolu want good fuel economy at part throttle etc.

I currently get about 11.5-13L/100kms out of an R33 manual.

I would like to get this down to about 10-12L/100kms. My last car was a corolla so it is hurting at the bowser. But also want to keep the engine safe. Don't want to turn it into a false economy by blowing a motor.

So for 10psi boost, R34 intercooler, exhaust you still think powerfc is worth it along with the increased tuning costs? Just not sure if I want to part with $1500 for PFC and tune vs. approx $350 for DFA and tune.

I justr think the difference in how the car drives will not be huge for these mods? Am I right? DFA should get rid of most of the dips????

[Sydneykid]

Most cars I here about with a powerfc aren't getting great economy though.  

I guess you need to ensure at the tune that yolu want good fuel economy at part throttle etc.

I currently get about 11.5-13L/100kms out of an R33 manual.  

I would like to get this down to about 10-12L/100kms.  My last car was a corolla so it is hurting at the bowser.  But also want to keep the engine safe.  Don't want to turn it into a false economy by blowing a motor.  

So for 10psi boost, R34 intercooler, exhaust you still think powerfc is worth it along with the increased tuning costs?  Just not sure if I want to part with $1500 for PFC and tune vs. approx $350 for DFA and tune.

I justr think the difference in how the car drives will not be huge for these mods?  Am I right?  DFA should get rid of most of the dips????

The Stagea has no dips in its power curve, I tuned them out with the DFA and the IEBC. It drives just as nice as standard, in fact maybe even slightly better. It is a very safe tune, but I compromised on the power by doing so. The DFA and the IEBC are the best bang for buck engine mod I have ever done on a Skyline (Stagea in my case). So I would not be arguing against them as a value for money choice.

[benl1981]

Right - I see. But you really think for my mod list powerfc would be much superior ?

[Sydneykid]

Right - I see.  But you really think for my mod list powerfc would be much superior ?

Better fuel consumption, yes a little bit

Better power, yes a fair bit

Better reliability, at that / power level, yes a lot

Worth the extra cost, yes in my case

But it's your money, not mine:cheers:

[benl1981]

I see your point. Thanks for the advice. I'll see if I can get a Powerfc for the right price.

I didn't think the mod list was much ito warrant the FC i.e only 2psi more boost, slighlty larger intercooler and exhaust. But you know your skylines...