Stagea Group Buy Whiteline & Bilstein

[Sydneykid]

Do i need the camber kits if i buy the shocks and spring?

Currently i am 100% interested and able to afford the

f/r shocks and spring

caster kit

subframe alignment

BUt, do i need the camber kits? that JUST blows my budget by ~200$

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It really depends on how low you want to go. At the 350mm height, the front will be fine without adjusting the camber and the rear will be OK using the standard camber adjuster. At 342 mm the front will be OK (just) but you will most likely need 1 rear camber kit. At 334 mm the front will most likely need a camber kit and the rear will definitely need 1 camber kit. At 326 mm the front will definitely need a camber kit and the rear will need 2 kits.

So it's simply a question of how low do you want to go?

Cheers

Edited August 31, 2005 by Sydneykid

[AlexCim]

Go any indication of how low all those heights are.

I dont mind the std height i am at now, i would possibly like to drop it down so that the wheels just fill the gaurds and have an even borer around them all way around the gaurd (if that makes sense)

EDIT

Car sits 405mm at the front, 380mm at the rear

I like the height it is at the rear, the height i was talking about is ~340...325 is too low for me, wheels are IN the guards

With the circlips you machine in, what are the height settings i can put after the spring sit?

Edited August 31, 2005 by AlexCim

[Sydneykid]

Go any indication of how low all those heights are.

I dont mind the std height i am at now, i would possibly like to drop it down so that the wheels just fill the gaurds and have an even borer around them all way around the gaurd (if that makes sense)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The best I can suggest is to stick it on some flat ground, get the tape measure out and measure the centre of the wheel to the guard. With new 245/45/17 tyres, 350 mm is about 2 fingers between the tyre and guard. So 342 mm is about 1 finger, 334 mm is zero fingers and 326 mm is minus 1 fingers. Depending on how skinny your fingers are of course.

cheers

Edited August 31, 2005 by Sydneykid

[AlexCim]

I have 225/50 R16 on it the moment

Right now, i get about a 4-5 fingers (a hand) under the front and about 3 fingers in the rear...

**Please read edited previous post too thank you**

How many kits are included in a "set"?? Refer to the original price list

Edited August 31, 2005 by AlexCim

[Sydneykid]

I have 225/50 R16 on it the moment

Right now, i get about a 4-5 fingers (a hand) under the front and about 3 fingers in the rear...

**Please read edited previous post too thank you**

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Whiteline coils lower the Stagea about 25 mm from standard (when new). There are 2 circlip groves machined above the standard circlip groove and they are 8 mm apart. So you can set the height back to within a couple of mm of standard. Then you can come down from that in 6 steps of 8mm, that's 48mm.

Maybe some numbers to make it easier;

245 X 45% = 110 mm

17" wheels (8.5" diameter) = 216mm

216 + 110 = 326 mm

225 X 50% = 112 mm

16" wheels (8" diameter) = 203mm

112 + 203 = 315 mm

4 of my fingers (right up at the knuckle) is 90 mm

315 mm + 90 mm = 405 mm

Which is what you are seeing

We mostly talk about the front height, the rear height is usually lined up off the front. They seem to handle/look best with 10 mm of rake towards the front (rear up), that is measured at the sills just behind the front wheels and just in front of the rear wheels.

cheers

[AlexCim]

So if i am assuming correct, with the std circlip on the shock, and the whiteline springs, i would see a 1 inch lowering of the car to

405->380 front?

380->355 rear?

So give my desired height of approximatly ~340 and the rake you suggest, i should drop the car 35mm at the front, which is equivalent to 4 circlip groves? This would then make the car site

348 front

355 rear

That sounds good to me

One other thing, how do these circlip grooves work? I mean, i am not a fan of putting lowered springs on std shocks, but how are we altering the ride height here without effecting the shock absorber?

Else, ill probably be getting the full package in about 1-2 weeks less the camber kits, as the height i desire is OK for no camber kits right?

Are the parts easy to install and "set" to the desired settings? I dont think i could put in the caster bushes myself could i?

[Sydneykid]

So if i am assuming correct, with the std circlip on the shock, and the whiteline springs, i would see a 1 inch lowering of the car to

405->380 front?

380->355 rear?

So give my desired height of approximatly ~340 and the rake you suggest, i should drop the car 35mm at the front, which is equivalent to 4 circlip groves? This would then make the car site

348 front

355 rear

That sounds good to me

One other thing, how do these circlip grooves work? I mean, i am not a fan of putting lowered springs on std shocks, but how are we altering the ride height here without effecting the shock absorber?

Else, ill probably be getting the full package in about 1-2 weeks less the camber kits, as the height i desire is OK for no camber kits right?

Are the parts easy to install and "set" to the desired settings? I dont think i could put in the caster bushes myself could i?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The shocks don't care about ride height, the only thing that matters is the spring rate and the weight of he car.

On the height, yours is around 10-15mm higher than mine was, it was ~395 mm LHS and 390 mm RHS at the front. I don't know why that is the case, maybe Nissan had a tall spring option. So you may well find that you end up at 375mm with just the springs. That's the beauty of having the circlip height adjustment, you can juggle it around to get what you want.

You will need to trim the bump stops, have a look at the Stagea suspension thread for details.

If you have a 20 tonne press you can swap the caster bushes over yourself.

Considering the current height of yours, it will pay to check the camber after the springs and shocks are in, just to be sure that you don't need a kit or two.

cheers

Edited August 31, 2005 by Sydneykid

[StageZilla]

Hi Brad, I can put grooves down to zero if you want, but you have to be very careful.  There is not a lot of suspension travel, this is not shock absorber constrained, it is front driveshaft limited.  In addition the front lower control arm moves to a static upward angle (outwards, towards the wheel), this means a  dynamic shift  to positive camber on suspension compression.  Hence a savage jump into understeer, not good on a car with a 4wd system that shifts away from oversteer on power on ie; double whammy.

I have spent several days jacking the suspension up and down, looking for the design limitations.  Added to that I have driven so many Skylines that handle very badly, some are downright dangerous.  I have then designed the suspension kits to give the best handling and ride.

Bottom, line, if you want super low for look that's fine, but don't expect it to handle or ride very well.

cheers 

PS; 350 mm is on the standard groove, there is 24 mm lower than that (3 X 8mm) availble via moving the circlip.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thats cool then, i did only want the option of goin to 300mm for looks at a car show or something, not for everyday use, the exhuast is about 90mm off the ground now so i aint got much clearance

can u work out the exact price of the stuff:

whiteline springs x 4 = $288

bilstein shocks x 4 = $952

rear adjustable swaybar x 1 = $219 (ive already got a front swaybar)

caster (front only) = $110

camber (full set) = $395

subframe alignment = $105

total of $2069 (free shipping) - 5%

so does $1965.55c delivered sound right?

plus need cost of grooves down to 300mm also and remembering shocks are fork gtr style

well ill be ordering the kit in the next week or two

thanks for the info

Brad

[Sydneykid]

thats cool then, i did only want the option of goin to 300mm for looks at a car show or something, not for everyday use, the exhuast is about 90mm off the ground now so i aint got much clearance 

can u work out the exact price of the stuff:

whiteline springs x 4 = $288

bilstein shocks x 4 = $952

rear adjustable swaybar x 1 = $219 (ive already got a front swaybar)

caster (front only) = $110

camber (full set) = $395

subframe alignment = $105

total of $2069 (free shipping) - 5%

so does $1965.55c delivered sound right?

plus need cost of grooves down to 300mm also and remembering shocks are fork gtr style

well ill be ordering the kit in the next week or two 

thanks for the info

Brad

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Brad, that's pretty much spot on, for some reason GTR rear shocks (fork) are $20 each more than GTST (bush). Let me know when you are ready to go, and please remind me about the extra, extra circlip grooves.

cheers

[Burns]

SK

Have I worked out the costs corectly for a full kit? When you confirm my total of $2,173.60 is corect I will organise to make the payment.

Description Cost

Springs Front 144.00

Springs Rear 144.00

Shocks front 476.00

Shocks Rear 476.00

Stabiliser bar adjustable Front 219.00

Stabiliser bar adjustable Rear 219.00

Caster Kit 110.00

Rear Camber kit 123.00

Front Camber kit 272.00

Subframe lock and alignment 105.00

Total 2,288.00

-5% 2,173.60

[Sydneykid]

SK

Have I worked out the costs corectly for a full kit? When you confirm my total of $2,173.60 is corect I will organise to make the payment.

Description Cost

Springs Front 144.00

Springs Rear 144.00

Shocks front 476.00

Shocks Rear 476.00

Stabiliser bar adjustable Front 219.00

Stabiliser bar adjustable Rear 219.00

Caster Kit 110.00

Rear Camber kit 123.00

Front Camber kit 272.00

Subframe lock and alignment 105.00

Total 2,288.00

-5% 2,173.60

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Spot on, just PM with the receipt details for the transfer and and don't forget to inlcude the address and phone number where you want the kit deliveredto.

cheers

[Burns]

PM sent

[michaeljquinn]

Great work SK.

But not having access to the right equipment, what sort of time

would it take to do the camber and castor kits, fronts only.

I am thinking of taking the car to Centreline in Thomastown, but afraid

I'll upset them if I rock up with the kits (they sell them as well).

Also SK, do we have a handle on how long a shop would charge

to do the whole lot (springs/shocks/kits (F&R), and pineapples).

cheers

[Sydneykid]

Great work SK.

But not having access to the right equipment, what sort of time

would it take to do the camber and castor kits, fronts only.

I am thinking of taking the car to Centreline in Thomastown, but afraid

I'll upset them if I rock up with the kits (they sell them as well).

Also SK, do we have a handle on how long a shop would charge

to do the whole lot (springs/shocks/kits (F&R), and pineapples).

cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi, getting Chris at Centreline to do it should be no problem and they are the best place to go. Please don't rub Chris's nose in it about the price, the truth is that it was a Skylines Group Buy for 100 sets off a NSW Whiteline/Bilstein distributor. He will understand that.

As for cost, it is an all day job for one person with a little help from a second person for part of that time. It depends on how much fiddling they have to do to get the wheel alignment right. How good a condition and easy the other parts are that come off. Around $400 to $500 should cover it, but that is a guess.

Cheers

Gary

[michaeljquinn]

Hi, getting Chris at Centreline to do it should be no problem and they are the best place to go.  Please don't rub Chris's nose in it about the price, the truth is that it was a

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks heaps SK, some places I've been to get a bit ansi about bringing in bits

to install that they can supply.

cheers

keep up the great work

[emanuelt]

I have just had a wheel alignment and my front right side Camber is way out and thats the best they can do they said, so my toe is out too. The car pulls to the left a bit.

I am looking at getting front and rear Stabiliser bars, (is it worth getting the adjustable one for a little extra?)

Caster kit.

Subframe alignment.

Would the front camber kit fix my wheel alignment problem?

As I will be keeping my stock springs and hight for now, would i need to get the camber kits for front and rear or just the front. And will I need 2 front camber kits to get my camber right.

Anyone got what the perfect wheel alginment readout should be compared to the pic? Maybe should post a new topic on wheel alignment figers and whats best?

[Terminal]

I have just had a wheel alignment and my front right side Camber is way out and thats the best they can do they said, so my toe is out too. The car pulls to the left a bit.

I am looking at getting front and rear Stabiliser bars, (is it worth getting the adjustable one for a little extra?)

Caster kit.

Subframe alignment.

Would the front camber kit fix my wheel alignment problem?

As I will be keeping my stock springs and hight for now, would i need to get the camber kits for front and rear or just the front. And will I need 2 front camber kits to get my camber right.

Anyone got what the perfect wheel alginment readout should be compared to the pic? Maybe should post a new topic on wheel alignment figers and whats best?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have the exact same problem. Had a set of TEIN coilovers and Whiteline sway bars with whiteline camber and castor kits installed and now the car pulls to the left. maybe they have a common fault withint their suspension/steering setup?

[AlexCim]

Oddly enough, my car ALSO pulls to the left!

Nothing major, but if you let go of the steering wheel, it eventually starts turning left... i presume i just need a wheel alignment?

[Sydneykid]

I have just had a wheel alignment and my front right side Camber is way out and thats the best they can do they said, so my toe is out too. The car pulls to the left a bit.

I am looking at getting front and rear Stabiliser bars, (is it worth getting the adjustable one for a little extra?)

Caster kit.

Subframe alignment.

Would the front camber kit fix my wheel alignment problem?

As I will be keeping my stock springs and hight for now, would i need to get the camber kits for front and rear or just the front. And will I need 2 front camber kits to get my camber right.

Anyone got what the perfect wheel alginment readout should be compared to the pic? Maybe should post a new topic on wheel alignment figers and whats best?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Stageas only have adjustable toe front and rear and limited camber adjustment on the rear standard. To adjust the camber and the caster they need the Whiteline bushes as per the kit. The settings I have quoted in the Group Buy are what you should be targetting. A quick diagnosis follows;

FRONT You currently have ~3 degrees of caster, that's simply not enough for good steering feel and response to inputs. Plus to stop the drift to the left you need more caster on the LHS front than the RHS front with the camber equal. You have 1.20 degree negative camber on the LHS and 2.40 negative on the RHS. This is exacerbating the drift to the left.

A caster kit (KCA332) will enable adjustment of the caster to achieve around 5 degrees positive which is more like it, plus give the ability to adjust for whatever more is necessary on the LHS to stop the drift.

A camber kit (KCA348) will enable adjustment of the camber to get to the targetted 1 degree negative. If you don't fix the 2.40 negative on the RHS front it will wear out the inside of the tyre.

REAR The toe in needs to be 2mm each side, at the moment it is -0.2mm on the LHS and +2.1mm on the RHS. I assume this was an attempt by the wheel aligner to stop the drift to the left caused by the front camber/caster. If you fix the front then they will be able remove this band aid and set the rear toe up correctly.

The rear camber is too much at 1.6 degrees negative, but at least it is even. The standard adjusters can remove some of that. I don't know whether it is already on max adjustment or the wheel aligned didn't know about the standard adjustment. Have a look in the Stagea Suspension thread, it has pictures and instructions on how to adjust the rear camber. If the standard adjusters are already on max, then you will need a rear camber kit (KCA347) to get to the target 0.5 degrees negative.

Hope that was of some help.

cheers

[Sydneykid]

For the guys that are ordering the Bump Stop and Dust cover kit. You will have to trim the bump stops to suite the correct height that you are going to have your car set at. The dust cover clips ove the end of the bump stop stop so you have to trim the other end with a knife, be careful it is easy to slip and cut yourself.

This is a picture of what the bump stop and dust cover assembled would look like at higher than standard height;

This is how much much to trim off the bump stop, shown next to a standard Skyline bump stop. The orange line is for standard height, the red line is for ~350 mm centre of wheel to guard and the yellow line is for ~330 mm centre of wheel to guard.

Note that standard height is 2 circlip grooves up from the standard circlip groove, ~350 mm is the standard circlip groove and 330 mm is 2/3 circlip grooves down from the standard groove. You can pick the standard groove as it has a yellow stripe accros it. Plus the circlip should be in that groove when you get the shocks.

If you are using the standard bump stops they also have to be trimmed if you are going lower than standard height. You have to trim the thick part of the standard bump stop, not just cut off the little lump on the bottom. That would make them very harsh at first contact. You will need a hack saw as the rubber is very tough. The red line (no trimming) is for standard height, the yellow line is for ~350 mm centre of wheel to guard and the orange line is for ~330 mm centre of wheel to guard.

Hope that was of some help, if you have any questions please post them up here as it may answer other peoples queries as well

cheers

Edited June 18, 2006 by Sydneykid