Sydneykid

Hi Simon We can work with the RB25 in the S13, nothing major, we've done it before... 1. Something we haven't listed in the kit though is the Noltec low profile strut tops, which, combined with the camber kit, will add additional camber where required. 4.0 should be acheivable, but the question is why do you need so much negative camber, it will destroy tyres... 2. We'd go to a 5.5-6kg front spring and match the shocks appropriately, so allow $10 for revalving 3. Generally go a 27mm front, 24mm rear for drift or circuit, 22mm rear for street. We also have the appropriate bar to clear the sump. Brand is Selby Sway Bars, made in the old Whiteline premises (do the maths on that if you like). If you have already the right size, then they aren't required 4. It depends on how happy you are with the replacement arms - if the idea of servicing them, and having to replace the whole arm (more than likely) after 18-24mnths is fine with you, then keep them. Ball joints wear out, and japanese replacement arms don't generally have replacement joints unfortunately. But, if you are OK with their downsides, then they are perfectly fine. Matt

Off that description it is my opinion that the shocks are destroyed, and are not slowing the rebound of the springs - so the springs are just bouncing side to side off one another. I'll try to PM you today, if not, PM me

Hi Adz, For coilover options, please see below and Group Buy threads As for the issue, which is more of what I am interested in, what sort of sound accomanies it? If none, and the rear feels overall like the shocks are dead, then they probably are dead. Realistically, you can pop a wheel off and have a look around and see what look out of place...otherwise, hard to guess without more feedback. Matt

Hi Simonster The S13kit is now fully functioning (on the most part) It is basically the same as the S15 kit, Pricing below Front Springs $144.00 Rear Springs $144.00 Front Bilstein Insert $561.00 Strut insert labour $109.00 Rear Bilstein Shocks $500.00 Front stabiliser bar Adj $219.00 Rear stabiliser bar Adj $219.00 Caster Kit $110.00 Front Camber pins $72.00 Rear Camber Kit $123.00 Rear Subframe alignment kit $105.00 Bump Stop & Dust Cover $102.00 Zero Freight $- Sub Total $2,408.00 Less extra 5% $120.40 Total $2,287.60 Nissan 180 SX S13 Road & Track Kit (Specify CA or SR) Eibach Main Front Springs $250.00 Eibach Main Rear Springs $250.00 Eibach Tender/Helper Rear Springs $210.00 Rear Bilstein Shocks $500.00 Rear Bilstein Coil Over Conversion $220.00 Front Bilstein Insert $561.00 Strut insert labour $109.00 Rear Bilstein Shocks $500.00 Front stabiliser bar Adj $219.00 Rear stabiliser bar Adj $219.00 Caster Kit $110.00 Front Camber pins $72.00 Rear Camber Kit $123.00 Rear Subframe alignment kit $105.00 Bump Stop & Dust Cover $102.00 Rear Camber Kit $72.00 Sub Total $3,622.00 Less extra 5% $181.10 Total $3,440.90

Hey mate, As a fellow former karter (who didn't even win a state title, let alone a national), I think we can get this thing handling a lot better. I'm of the opinion you have enough skill to drive the car... I can identify a couple of issues myself which I think explain the handling woes, without touching on the geometry settings too much (not my area just yet, still in training there) On full slicks, a 10kg front spring is probably OK. Infact, its probably close to being about right. However, on a semi slick radial, its waaaay too stiff. You will never get away with using the same spring rates for slicks as you will with a semi slick. . Something around the 6kg mark would be my max on RE55s on a circuit GTR, no more. I imagine with the shocks and springs used, if you wind up the shock valving UP stiffer, the problem is amplified, is it not? If this is the case, having an adjustable shock is not doing the job, because you have nowhere to adjust them too. You really need to get a better shock valving, and a good non-adjustable monotube matched with a more suitable spring rate will improve your handling dramatically (there's more required at the same time to improve it, but this is a big start) and probably cheaper than another set of adjustable japaense shocks that will again have the same issues as the current ones. No upgraded front sway bar - that's one problem. HOWEVER - if you put the 26mm sway bar on, with the current shock spring arrangement, it will make the handling worse, and will BADLY increase the understeer. 26mm front is, in my opinion, too big. On semi slicks, we tend to run 5-6kg front springs with a 22-24mm adjustable front sway bar. I dare say 26mm will be oversized, especiially if it is bigger than the rear sway bar (whiteline go to 24mm, no larger, and rear needs to be bigger). With a 26mm front, you'd need a 30mm bar on the back - and that's just stoopid!! Either way, you will also benefit from sperical swaybar links. The same applies for the rear as the front in terms of shocks and springs No adjustment there, too stiff in the spring, etc. If it wasn't understeering so badly, it would be oversteering so badly. The rear sway needs to be atleast 24mm, if not 26mm, with a 24mm front bar. As a former karter myself, I have NO IDEA how you put up with that much understeer - drives me NUTS!! There's more, but this is a start. I need to do more reading of dad's books and notes, not to mention question him, before I get to the geometry, so I'll leave that alone for now. Matt Son of SK

Hi Guys Can I start by asking what suspension mods and wheel alignment settings you have before we try to fix something. Also, spring rates and tyres (look like a full slick)? The first thing I see in the picture is body roll in the back - on full slicks, 24mm front, 26mm rear bars would be optimum with sperical links. Hicas locked? The rear looks unhappy to follow, possibly due to the load on the outside tyres, but it looks like a pig to drive.. If understeer is the issue, how much camber and caster are you running? I need more feedback on the overall feeling (corner by corner) before I can comment much more. We need to identify what is wrong before we can fix it. Then you can go out and give the GT2 back its just desserts! Cheers Matt (Son of SK)

At 100,000km, it is no surprise if feels flabby - stock shocks in most jhapanese vehicles have a life expectancy of 70,000 kms, and a lot less than 10 years. The group buy is still valid. If you do not want to increase the spring rates, but do want less roll, do the shocks to get them working, but invest in a apair of swaybars toreduce the roll. It will increase the driving experience, and detract from the feeling of looseness. The Bilsteins will handle the stock springs as well as the whiteline springs. I'd suggest springs too, but it is purely road and driver dependant. If you drive on crap roads, it can be detrimental to up the spring rate. Instead, use swaybars to limit roll without compromising on ride comfort

Yes

I said to Mark before he left, that anything around the 1 min would be a great effort, to get under the minute is a fantastic effort. I don't know the tyre compounds everyone was using, but a "green tyre" lap is usually 1% to 1.25% better then what you get after that. So new tyres would be worth 1 second, maybe 1.25. A medium compound isn't going to get the job done in a time attack format, a soft (qualifying) compound is usually worth 1.25% to 1.5%, so there is another 1.25 secs or so available there. Add it up and the 57 is there with the right tyre choice and usage plus a bit more track time. Great effort guys, I am sure you learned a lot and have plenty of stories to tell. Cheers Gary

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/R3...ils-t85467.html If its just shocks you need, as opposed to a full suspension overhaul, just buy the shocks

Torque makes the car move, not horsepower. Cheers Gary

You rang? What is it exactly that you want to know? The speification build up varies from model to model, they all start out from the Skyline B46 configuration. But the internals are specifically selected to suite the rest of the kit. Cheers Gary

SOSK covered the concepts pretty well, so I will try and explain some things a little deeper. 1. The Japanese don't have our history of swaybar upgrades, so they are more inclined to use springs to achieve the result 2. Japanese mechanics charge like brain surgeons, hourly rates of $500 are considered cheap. So they try and do everything in one installation, taking a coil over kit out of a box and bolting it in is way cheaper than doing springs, shocks, bars and a full suspension alignment. 3. Wheel alignment is expensive (refer #2), so is often left off the list. You can't see what you get, no shiny boxes to show off. That may sound harsh, but brand name showing off is prevalent, a symptom being the shopping lists seen on the side of cars. 4. Changing suspension geometry is quite alien, and requires a skill level and experience that the typical Japanese mechanic simply doesn't have. They don't teach suspension geometry in automotive mechanics courses. 5..Japanese aftermarket suppliers tailor their products to the market, what the market wants the market gets. They don't try and educate the market, they simply make and sell what everyone expects. Here we tend to follow the European process and educate the buyer so that they can then make an informed decision. 6. Keeping #5 in mind, the Japanese market expects that to have a good handling car, it must be firm. Firmer means better handling, rock solid means that's the best handling they can get. 7. Their roads are, in general, better (smoother) than ours, but not as much as some people would have you believe. But their race tracks are unbelievably smooth, especially the newer ones, they are billiard tables. Japanese race drivers tend to not use the ripple strips, they drive between the lines. Notice how most Japanese professional race teams have at least one European or Australian driver and they do the qualifying. They value their analytical skills and feel for what the car is doing and what it needs ot go faster. 8. The concept of DIY is not strong in Japan, they prefer to get in an expert to do the job. Whereas fitting bars is pretty much a DIY job for an Ozzie. Add it all up and you can see that their whole philosophy of suspension upgrades is quite different to ours. We have much lower labour rates, so a quick bolt on solution is not necessary. We do a lot of DIY, so bars are a great value for money handling upgrade, in fact almost every single suspension expert will tell you that bars are the best value for money handling upgrade you can make. I will finish up with this (you may have read it before) I did this for a magazine article some time ago, the editor hated it because it showed a lot of his advertisers in a bad light. The idea was to take a $1600 coil over kit (not for a Skyline) and break its retail price content down to show what you get for your $400 for each corner. Then I compare it to a Bilstein, Koni, Whiteline, Kings, combination for $400 per corner; Coil over kit retail price breakdown; Strut top $60 Bump stop $15 Dust cover $8 Upper spring seat $20 Lower spring seat $15 Threaded sleave/case $30 Spring $80 Shock $172 Total $400 Bilstein, Koni, Whiteline, Kings; Bump stop $15 Dust cover $8 Spring $80 Shock $297 Total $400 It's easy to see that you get a 75% superior shock value ($172 compared to $297). The cost in a shock is the type of materials used (fairly minor difference) and the valving sophistication (where the real money is spent). Simplistically this is why a $1600 kit (featuring Bilstein shocks) will always be a superior solution. Over the years I have fitted many kits to many cars road cars, race cars and all things in between, and I can confidently say that every single car has done faster lap times, been more comfortable and easier to drive when we removed the Jap coil over kits and replaced them with products engineered for Australia. Don’t believe me? OK let’s try this, what is the source of the shocks used by the top Japanese race and time attack teams? In almost every case they use European, some recent examples that you can check for yourself; The M Speed R34GTR (HPI #87) uses Dymamic, made in the Europe The Nagisa Auto R34GTR (HPI #85) uses Quantum, made in Europe The Garage Ito/Pro Stock racing R34GTR (HP#86) also uses Quantum I t will be interesting to see how Giant’s R32GTR compares at Tsukuba this week. It is running a set of adjustable stabiliser bars I made up for it, together with Eibach springs and Ohlins (from Sweden) shocks. Cheers Gary

Obviously you couldn't handle my post, too much English for the translator? I gave several reasons WHY the V6 is superior, so now it's your turn. In Australia we call it PUT UP OR SHUT UP . Cheers Gary

Let's try something a little interesting. There seems to be some guys with the opinion that this is an "automatic" gearbox and one day it will come with a "manual". My opinion is this is a "manual" because; 1. It has a clutch, in fact it has 2 clutches 2. It doesn't have a torque converter (that's very important) 3. Not having a H pattern shift is irrelevant, sequential shifting is still "manual" in fact plenty of competition cars have sequential gearboxes, World Rally Cars, Champ Cars, Super Tourers and, next year, even V8 Supercars. 4. Just because there is the option of not changing gear yourself doesn't make it an automatic 5. Just because it doesn't have a clutch pedal doesn't mean it's not a manual. The clutch/clutches is/are actuated by other means, so what? A V8Supercar has an ignition cut on the gearlever which serves the same purpose, cuts the ignition momentarily so you can change up a gear without using the clutch pedal. Except they aren't as "smart" as a GTR, you still have to use the clutch pedal on the down change. 5. The gearbox is one of the reasons why it is so fast, in a straight line and around the track. Because the shift speed is much faster than you and I can manage with a clutch pedal and a H pattern shift. There is almost no pause in the acceleration, no loss of boost. It's a manual in every sense of the word, arguably the best type of manual. Something the R32GTR would have benefitted greatly from, that's why sequential Hollingers are such a popular upgrade for track cars. Cheers Gary

As above, except for GTS4 variants, the fronts are different then

Who's kit? So I know exactly what was in the kit. Every kit is individualised, some want a road based package, some a more track friendly... Its not just a "one size fits all" thing. We use varying spring rates and varying shock rates. I keep a database too, every single kit sold, I know what they got. If its a road package, then you are comparing apples to oranges. If it is a road and track kit, then what were the spring rates? Car height? Car? No japanese coilover kit has a matched spring to shock combination - think I'm wrong? If they have 24 points of adjustment, how can every one of them be engineered specifically to the spring rate? And when the car is oversteering like a pig, do you just soften the rear shocks off?? Because if the spring rate is 10kgs, then it doesn't make any difference. The shocks adjustments don't change the incorrect spring rates. I don't bag out every kit that we don't sell. I happily endorse a number of products, and people who have asked, I will tell them the other brand names I endorse. No. There's a thread for shock info, called shock absorber 101, read it. That should do for now, someone else can answer what I didn't. Maybe someone who had a set of jap shocks, then sold them and bought something better??

It always beneficial if you have someone who actually knows something about what they are doing, better still someone who has done it before. We have had some strange questions, like the rear camber kit does't fit. Which was because they were trying to put it in the lower control arms. So far the recommended workshops on the Group Buy list has been the better results. ie; East Coast Suspension in Kirrawee, Heasmans at Sydenham, Exceller Steering at Bankstown and Jim Hunter at Blacktown. Lots of guys have DIY. A successfull method is a working bee in your garage or backyard. Just invite a few SAU'ers along who know what they are doing, provide some tools, a few beers and a BBQ, havea party and do it all for under $150. Cheers Matt

Well, this thread got interesting. Most points have been answered. Why do Japs use massive spring rates in Time Attack - good question. The first point - do they use larger sway bars?? No. They should. But they don't. It is simply not technology they are familiar with in Japan. They are also expensive to make in Japan (look at labour costs in Japan). They instead use spring rates to fix every problem - roll, dive and squat... and that's not how to do it. The simple fact is that semi's hate anything more than 7kg. Over that, and the tyre is working outside its perferred range (so are most shocks), and is giving you its life. It will voerheat quicker, and you will slower at the end of sessions... Most people will go faster on softer springs, rather than "sick uleh" coilovers As for adjustable coilovers - I laugh. You can't adjust spring rates firstly, but I think the percentage of the population who actually know what they are doing when they adjust them is about 1% Son of Sydneykid

up

How about rear parcel shelf stuffs.... I need them

AHAHAHA Snr is more of a bourbon fan.... OK - sounds Ok - just wanted spring rates for reference. RB30 GB - far out... hopefully not anytime soon LOL. Suspension is busy enough

Got them, and feedback to be left now... Now i gotta install them though.....

You got it, a car this fast, at this price is truly a bargain. It's only such good value for money because Nissan spent the time working out how to get the desired performance at a price that Nissan buyers could afford. It's easy to make performance when price is not a consideration, but when you accomplish it for a very reasonable target price, that's what impresses me. Cheers Gary

There is really only one reason, to improve the weight distriibution. In a race situation the gearbox runs a bit cooler due to distance from the engine, particularly with 2 turbos right in front of it, one on each side. It is also an advantage, weight distribution wise, when you can run the transmission cooler at the rear together with its pump. Cheers Gary