RICE RACING

Too much power with WM50, means you need the best electronic control and calibration to match

Some here may find this of interest. I decided to share this since lots of "internet engineers" these days are comparing all kinds of turbos and theorizing about what will fit what best and how it will work, with ironically none of them ever testing properly the set ups they are recommending to the 'community' they claim to be doing a service too. Anyway. Below is an over lay of exactly the same engine type (13B-REW) stock standard. EFR9180 IWG 0.92AR (green) v EFR7670 EWG 1.05AR (red), same target boost, same rpm acceleration rate. One on dyno done in 4th gear and other on road in 3rd gear, different gearing ratio's but importantly the accel rate is equal thus turbocharger is loaded the same way to make a valid comparison. While I wont put up everything (only enough to put certain people in their place lol) the cars run same EGT, same lambda, same timing, all fundamentals are otherwise equal to give a fair comparison. Moral, don't believe anyone be they a vendor/supplier or internet engineer unless they can show you overlays of professional data analysis of exact comparisons to back up their claims of what will work on your engine type! comparing a motor that is not the same is just plain stupid and misleading. So my parting message to the many stalkers who follow the thread around the world, why recommend something when you don't know what you are talking about or how to properly test it, let alone prove it? :)

Back to Datsun content, got proof of durability mother luvers??? Time on Load, bloke who drives it is a maniac, rapes car each time its turned driven. 300+ 9 second passes? who knows who cares, as I measure durability in hours, its got 19 hours to go before engine will be inspected (we hope, but that is the aim), see how long the shitbox lasts at all a 9180 can deliver.

^ and some of those examples you quote as 'reliable' famously detonated at WTAC and spewed out oil (though no one was killed LOL). Also spinning wheels for a few seconds is not comparable to loading up an engine at 200+kph consistently and repeatedly. I stand by my original comments, mechanical engineering is the ultimate distiller of bullshit, therefore you only see things in the world that work, this is why you don't see rotaries be they turbo or otherwise in anything meaningful at the top, be that circuit racing, drag racing, top speed events, or out on the streets. Compare them on an equivalence basis and they are nowhere, still a novel engine though for kunts who like to be different

This is what is crucial in these engines and why I rave on about Life Racing who are the undisputed masters of knock control engines honestly. You can quickly and randomly at times go from minor knock to pre igntion in one engine cycle! and good luck if your ECU of choice and calibrator have no real experience in running to this limit :)

The motor in that car is a real nugget actually, built in NZ (it's in the title) but the porting is shit, rotors are the wrong CR, but it has a center bearing main shaft, while not necessary at all it is in there, these nugget engines are very prone to oil blockage and need attention to the breather system to make them work (again shit design) but it lives. As said the porting is rubbish in the the extreme just goes to show you a rotary can make power with rubbish workmanship LOL... Some pics below v's a proper port job. In regards to getting it to live, I've been doing this since 1995 or so (my first turbo rotary) but what I did not have access too since only last 7 or so years is actual hi end race electronics that are exactly what is used in the best forced induction endurance race series around the world, this is what 'honestly' transformed a novel/different idea into some thing that works in all conditions and any eventualities we threw at it (and continue to put it through). We are the only people who run knock limited turbocharged rotaries (to my knowledge)... engines are fully controlled in knock to pre ignition stages, and believe it or not have never yet lost an engine since running the Life Racing F88 ECU. It has taken well over 300 iterations of calibration revisions (yes 300!) some may find that hard to believe but its allot of hours of development and nothing more than that, hardware wise bugger all has changed, some development of water injection specifications and proper integration into the ECU. Don't get me wrong lots of people (not just me) I am sure have the formula to make these kunt boxes actually work but its the implementation and making it a reality that is the hard bit we have all struggled with !

In two output shaft revolutions on a 13B it fires 4 times so its still displaces 2.616lt effectively. They are a small physical engine that is for sure, and have some great merits in relation to power density, The biggest drawbacks are if you have to compete in specific fuel consumption basis or specific power, they are about 20 to 30% less efficient when talking equivalent engine specifications. Since the inception (1960's) prone to sealing problems mostly cause of using a single linear beam to span 80mm distance (13B case) and keeping it in tolerance (flat, round tip on housing surface) is for all intensive purposes impossible. Then consider it has shared chambers and you can effectively take out up to half of the engine. It involves very specific calibration requirements to keep them alive (much harder than any piston engines typically). In short to answer your question directly though. This motor v's a RB with same turbo, I have running at same specific power (give or take) bhp/lt/bar and currently have them both at around 1 hour on full load, the Mazda still has compression LOL. Its something no one can really do this is why you don't see any on the road as real road cars, of if they do they have a motor every month put into them with no data to back up the claims of 'durability' we have been proving this car for over 2 years consistently. I will say one thing, without a Life Racing ECU and water injection system none of it would be remotely possible at all. Sure you can have a one hit wonder BS dyno claim or a few 'drag passes' and corresponding arsefacebook posts of world domination, but none of those cars EVER have any road proof of them working or if they try they detonate crack the block throw oil on the tires and spear off into the bushes killing the driver LOL.

EFR 9180 IWG version, running around 118,000rpm at peak engine rpm This is it running at a bit lower power setting

Here are some interesting real world tests (sorry its a 13B rotary Mazda) but still worth looking at. 100kph to 150kph in 2 seconds and 73 meters, makes 30 psi boost in 3rd gear at ~4800rpm and will hold power to 9300rpm it has a usable power band (235rwkw) from that rpm too, it really goes better than the peak power would suggest, fast on the road, too fast as it requires traction control most times. Hope to get to try one (EFR) for myself :)

Maybe find someone who finished Yr12 and passed some core subjects like mathematics, physics and chemistry? Its not that hard honestly and I am a dumb kunt. I agree there are max homo types out there who will buy quality stuff and think that is it, but there are many who use hyped up stuff and get short changed when there are far better quality items out there at ironically the same prices LOL.

For this amount of money you can buy a real computer, I don't get it other than people they use have no idea what is out there?

Apply that to any car, sub system many choose to use :) Classic case someone will by a Halaltech shitbox, and use the excuse 'that is what my tuner knows' ironically spend as much as you would get a proper ECU for, in the end you have a world of pain, and an inferior item that you will always be reminded of how shit it really is. When all you needed to do is open up your wallet and use your brains. See it all the time, in general the aftermarket scene is just dumb, its all I can put it down as.

old mate failed military cadet and anal probe lube stick man have no idea LOL.....

Tomei (who built this motor) rate it to some stupid power level, it's done a few hours now at all an EFR9180 can make, see how it goes I guess?

OS315

353 channels on the R34 and only 312 on the RX7 :P almost run out of bandwidth to do much more, but we get most of the stuff that is required.

Not just me who referes to them as 'boat anchors' either its common even on top end activities LOL

Yeah I get what you are saying, I think if more of them calibrated their own engines they would see merit in referring to it as what happens across the head/ports. It was interesting seeing it myself first time I did this 15 years ago, with the Automagic inside the shitbox Autronics we all loved back then. Now just set up my own tables for it on the ITB boosted set ups. I like the way you approach it personally, its all good talking about max output, but lots and lots loose sight of why we do this crap, its to have a quick and durable car that is enjoyable and does not require a boat anchor up front, leave them for the mardigras parade where they belong.

I like to talk in pressure ratio across the engine so to me personally it makes more sense to refer to it as map/tip. On some engines (weird shitbox like wankel or high over lap reciprocating) the relationship of say if you had 0.700 it does not necessarily translate to a 30% power loss due to pressure differential across the engine. So some are effected allot more than others. What I have found in my limited experiences is there is a correlation to lower output and non linearity still staying on compressor map as this ratio worsens. I don't know if the 9280 would help much?????? May try it as an interim test anyway since we know what the 9180 does, keep all other variables the same. The concern is as I said way back, that the inline 6cyl, that we run so efficiently, even in this capacity and flow rate combined with twin gate, horse cock manifolds blah blah, does not have the ideal response like an inefficient wankle (read wasted energy in exhaust!) so potentially the larger compressor I cant see helping that situation, and a few posts back, the car makes enough power really as is. LS swap? :P

Evo almost ready.

Lith it sounds like your do a bit of this? What is your limit for map/tip or what do you find in experience on the types of engines you do starts to yield lower results and increase negatives in relation to such parameters like say knock or another metric.

NP and I agree with you that enough debate, I appreciate your input and some of what I put up is of use so lets keep at that cause I know I can't test everything myself, so its good if we can work together since there is not many people who spend 30k in electronics and development time/resources per car, and in multiples its even more rare, not just one off personal hobby projects (nothing wrong with that though) but the more you do the better potentially the data collection is.

You do realize LR do OEM development with that exact same 'motorsport engine control' that exceed Euro5&6 standards? https://www.liferacing.com/products/ecus/gdi-series/ so not sure where you are going with that one to justify Ve based ECU's? I think its just marketing or justification of principle of operation getting confused with reality but hey. I know a LR is extremely clever, but I use it daily so I am biased, yes. Will dismount hobby horse now.

No stress, eitherway turbo is not right on that engine, not even a 13B to be honest, its more for small engines when run to full power.

Ve is a guess, but lets not argue it hey? you like yours I like mine, what was the last Bosch motorsport ECU you personally used? Cosworth? Life Racing?