HYPED6

We can produce both powers at the same rev by adjusting the throttle plate. Timing would be correct for the application at both loads. If the AFR is the same fuel usage will be double. However, I do believe I was caught up in the moment and using the word "exactly" may not bet totally correct. There are many factors that come in to play like the difference in barometric pressure, air and fuel temp from the 2 events being 100hp and 200hp. If measurable there would have to be some sort of variation. The real concern is why your turbo is kicking out? I would be upset if my 3037 was doing that

Can you please elaborate for me?

im no expert.... but..... The Nistune does a 5D multi layered bi directional tune for economy and power. Its all the in Air flow meter and your right foot. Boost doesn't use more fuel if its tuned nice and lean. Or left in closed loop at low boost levels. Required power levels uses more fuel....... regardless of air fuel ratio. So what I am saying is.... drive everywhere at 200 hp at 14.7:1 and you will use exactly twice as much fuel as driving everywhere at 100 hp at 14.7:1 Try driving everywhere using 15 - 30 hp all the time....... use your right foot to keep it off boost and you will be surprised how good your fuel economy becomes.

After looking at your graphs Im not sold its your springs. Sensor lag is a consideration. Having them closer to the engine is better for speed, but the factory 4 wire sensors that come with old DD dynos are super slow. A proper 5 wire should be used as they are much faster and more accurate in richer mixtures...... but that's another story so....... Back to the story at hand...... Looking at your graphs I would say a fair bit of timing has been pulled over 24psi. Following the graphs as the boost comes up, power actually drops. As the boost comes down power comes back up. I think if you had the boost control sorted, so the timing at full throttle wouldn't be jumping all over the place with boost pressures there would be gains to have. Its not in the mixtures because they don't follow the same pattern. I wouldn't be pulling your springs just yet.

This is true, I have tuned many an XR6 turbo. Did 2 last week actually. I wont normally touch them without putting springs in them first.

umm I think we are talking about different bits. Im talking about the part that is in the combustion chamber. Can be made black from cold start and only a few min of running.

Kiss $600 good bye.

Holy boost control bat man! Whats the go there?

Its very hard to tell lean and rich from plugs when you are running fuel with no lead in it. What I can tell you is that your cylinder temps are too cold for that plug or your plug is too cold for your cylinder temps. The white porcelain of the plug should be clean and white much further up the plug than where it is. You could run a 5 in your engine, or lean it out to up your cylinder temps.

Im not being silly. And im throwing this out to any one on the forum that tunes. Has any one ever measured pressure in an exhaust manifold?

This is true. I have seen standard 2JZ springs handle well over 30 psi. I have also seen them fall over well and truly at 23 psi I have seen standard 1JZ springs handle high 40's....... even 50 psi. But the 50 was on gas, so I cant rely on that. Again, 1JZ standard springs..... 26 psi.... nothing more. I have also seen aftermarket RB26 springs handle 21 psi........ and not a psi more. Not even half a psi more. Replace nothing but the springs and stopped at 32psi. RB30 aftermarket springs..... topped out at 46 psi. Replace the springs and got up to 51 psi and made a bucket lead more power. Still yet to wind it up further. Now remember, all things being equal... Every engine here has, the turbo, exhaust, intercooler, fuel system and correct fuel for the application. Im in no way saying that springs are 100% your issue. But if everything...... and I mean everything, not most things will support or over support the power level for your engine then springs may be the next option.

Everything being equal, More boost, no more power = Valve springs. Providing you have all the supporting mods to handle the power. when looking for power..... there are certain things that play a huge part in how your springs will perform. I think I have said too much all ready.

I still have never seen this. I have seen more boost, same power and same RPM ceiling. I have also seen engines with "good springs" that make good power to 9000rpm.... at 36psi boost Then change the springs, same power curve but 80 more rwhp on the same boost pressure......... Maybe on a NA LS engine they may do "funny" things in the top end...... never on an rb.

Im no expert.......... but how?

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OK...... Um...... I'm no expert but......... The Map sensor line for your ECU should be installed on the most reliable map source on your engine so it does not receive pulsing from the inlet manifold. Any where in the center of the plenum away from the runners if possible. Some ECU's with very fast map sensors and very poor filtering will see every pulse and make it hard to tune. I have seen as much as 4-7 psi variation from poorly installed map lines. DO NOT put it with anything that bleeds air. EG, boost controller. As this will drop your reference psi. I recommend putting it with your fuel pressure reg. This makes sure that if it does come of, your engine is guaranteed to run like a bucket. This will make you look further. If you have a boost gauge then this can work well too. It gives you a visual if the sensor line has some off. (less vacuum/less boost)

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Double post please delete

Umm, I think its safer and correct practice to max your injectors and keep winding the boost until your mixtures are correct. That's how I understand it any way?

I hate to say it, trial and error. But look at the droplets. Don't look at the pattern. Its the size of the droplets and where they are is the key factor. The pattern plays a big part in this directly through distribution.

Its funny, when I was first learning about tuning I thought a certain set of injector spray pasterns actually looked very good. The spark plugs where very white indicating a lot of heat. We changes to a different style of injectors, tuned the engine in the same fashion and the plugs where light brown. We actually stopped melting pistons at this stage to A trained eye can pick a good spray pattern, but quality equipment will tell you what is right or wrong for your application. i have tuned perfectly good 30/25's with hi flowed injectors and had no dramas. I have also found "quality" injectors on smaller engine to be rubbish.

Spray Patterns are very important. I cant go into detail, because its Friday night and I couldn't be bothered. But we have seen huge reductions in EGTs with good (correct) injector spray patterns. Think of the combustion chamber, with fuel and air in it...... now think of a spray pattern like a hose. Nice and straight and direct into the combustion chamber. Now Imagine a spray pattern that isn't just a big cone but distributes the fuel evenly over the port and through the combustion chamber. OK...... hopefully.... you have some sort of idea of the combustion process. Now the spark plug starts the flame, If we have a hose spray, then where the flame starts you might have a big chunk of fuel, then a massive pocket of air, then a correct mixture of air and fuel then another big chunk of fuel...... and finally another big chunk of oxygen....... by the way Oxygen = heat, Just like oxy acetylene. This is what melts pistons, and creates detonation and just makes a poor tune in general. I don't need to explain what a good atomizing injector does, I think that's pretty self explanatory, heat dissipation, complete combustion and correct flame propagation. Now to the people that think this is utter nonsense, and it doesn't matter what happens on the inside because there AFR's are correct, we recently ran 153 mph in a 3200 pound car with a standard 1JZ. No cams, no springs, no pistons...... nothing. And guess what. It lived. Google a drag calculator and see what it tells you the power its making. You may be surprised

HHmmm, I may be wrong, And please let me know Guilt Toy and I will keep my mouth shut and retreat back to my corner, but I think everyone is missing the big picture. Now im no expert, but this is what I do know about injectors. No 2 injectors are the same, Even out of the same batch, out of brand new boxes there are always slight variations. These may be flow rates at certain pulse widths or voltages or pressures. It may be one injector operates correctly at 1.123 ms where another needs 1.204 to deliver a good spray pattern at idle. Now any good tuner will have a bench tester to check these things before they go any where near your car. Even brand new injectors need to be tested, I have literally tested thousands and have sent many back because of poor or inconsistent flow rates or poor injector latency. Now...... If an injector dies, fails completely is that bad? No its an unfortunate event.... if there is no bang in the cylinder, there is no heat. If there is no heat then its not lean and nothing melts. However, what If an Injector at 6500 rpm, at 75psi at 12.6ms flows 10% less than his 5 friends? Now, if you are tuning with individual cylinder temps/AFR's then this will become very apparent, and something can be dome about it........ but what if you not? Actually, this is a little test for all you budding tuners out there. Next time you are road mapping your Power FC, Jump on the brakes, get your engine up too a few pound of boost, watch your AFR's then pull 10% out of one cylinder....... and what what happens too your AFR's......... They will go from 13.2:1 to probably around 13.3:1. Now if this is the case, then at full noise who is too say that your "safe" mixtures of 11.8:1 are not 1 - 10.5:1 2 - 13.3:1 3 - 11.5:1 4 - 10.1:1 5 - 11.7:1 6 - 12.8:1 Hands up who knows what cylinder is going to die first? You guessed it..... old mate number 2, but your mixtures where 11.8:1 they where safe. The thing here is not always to go for the best cheapest quality you can find, they are the ones that haven't been tested, that don't get put into specific batches so they are as similar as they can be. For the sake of even an extra $350 it may save you an engine just to know that they are right. And even then get them tested any way. I haven't even touched on the spray pattern quality and its effects on flame propagation and heat dissipation yet. That's for another day.

The torque loss is minimal, but it is still there. Unless you are running a super small turbo, and need to over advance your engine for thermal management, minimum timing for maximum torque is still the best method to use. Provided you are using the correct fuel for the application.

Injectors for sure. We flow test every single injector from new. A lot have to be at least cleaned, some returned to the supplier. These are brand new straight out of the box injectors. Its the most logical place to start looking.