Bad Handling At Higher Speeds And Braking

[GunMetalR33]

As the title says I have some handling issues at higher speeds and braking. The steering feels like the rear of the car is reacting late which makes the rear of the car feel loose????

I have the following wheel alignment settings:

FRONT

toe = LH(1.7mm) RH(1.8mm)

camber = LH(-1.75deg) RH(-1.10deg)

caster = LH(4.38deg) RH(3.96deg)

REAR

toe = LH(2.0mm) RH(1.8mm)

camber = LH(-1.67deg) RH(-1.79deg)

I also added a HICAS lock bar BEFORE the alignment.

ANY IDEAS?

[Sydneykid]

As the title says I have some handling issues at higher speeds and braking. The steering feels like the rear of the car is reacting late which makes the rear of the car feel loose????

I have the following wheel alignment settings:

FRONT

toe = LH(1.7mm) RH(1.8mm)

camber = LH(-1.75deg) RH(-1.10deg)

caster = LH(4.38deg) RH(3.96deg)

REAR

toe = LH(2.0mm) RH(1.8mm)

camber = LH(-1.67deg) RH(-1.79deg)

I also added a HICAS lock bar BEFORE the alignment.

ANY IDEAS?

My observations;

Front

1. That much toe out on the front is not a good idea, I would aim more for Zero toe unles it has an understeer problem

2. Uneven front camber, 0.5 degree difference is a lot

3. Not enough caster, both sides. More on the left is good, stops the drift to the left caused by the road camber. Check the front caster bushes, when they wear out they leak silicone so easy to spot.

Rear

4. That much toe out on the rear is not a good idea, I would aim more for 1 mm to 2 mm toe in unles it has an understeer problem

5. A bit too much rear camber for max traction, between 0.5 and 1.0 degrees is the go.

6. I would have good look at the rear subframe bushes, just make sure the cradle isn't moving around under load. When the standsrd bushes wear out they leak silicone so easy to spot.

You didn't mention height, what are the centre of wheel to guard measurements on all 4 corners? If they are too low they handle badly. Anything less than 355 mm front and 345 mm rear is a suspect.

Hope that helps

cheers

[GunMetalR33]

thanks for the info SK,

My r33 has been lowered with king spring lows (not super lows) and bilstien shocks.

Now for a stupid question, which ones are the castor rods? I think I know but am not sure.

[Sydneykid]

thanks for the info SK,

My r33 has been lowered with king spring lows (not super lows) and bilstien shocks.

Now for a stupid question, which ones are the castor rods? I think I know but am not sure.

They go from the front lower control arms forward to the subframe

cheers

[GunMetalR33]

Sk,

I went to the suspension place that did my wheel alignment and explained the problem. They put the car up on jacks to have a look at the bushes and ball joints for about 5 min and said they were fine.

He then took the car for a drive and reckons the rear bilstiens are bouncing back to fast kinda like po go sticks casing the car to feel loose in the back. He said that it would cost about $300 to get the valves fixed.

I dont really believe his explantion, but i did get some air going over a big arch in a old country road and the shocks would have bottomed out then.

I have had a look at the back of the car and can see by eye that the left rear has more toe and both have substantial camber.

Any further sugestions SK, or anyone else. I am not too keen to rip out the shocks and springs again especially if that is not the problem.

[djr81]

Sk,

I went to the suspension place that did my wheel alignment and explained the problem. They put the car up on jacks to have a look at the bushes and ball joints for about 5 min and said they were fine.

He then took the car for a drive and reckons the rear bilstiens are bouncing back to fast kinda like po go sticks casing the car to feel loose in the back. He said that it would cost about $300 to get the valves fixed.

I dont really believe his explantion, but i did get some air going over a big arch in a old country road and the shocks would have bottomed out then.

I have had a look at the back of the car and can see by eye that the left rear has more toe and both have substantial camber.

Any further sugestions SK, or anyone else. I am not too keen to rip out the shocks and springs again especially if that is not the problem.

Well, like the posts say you have too much -ve camber at the back (An unwanted side effect from lowering the suspension, but easilly fixable) & also too much toe in (Again at the back) Most shops use a +ve number to indicate toe in, atleast over here - maybe the convention is different elsewhere?

A question - when you bought the new springs, did you buy the shocks (new?) as well. If so they should be matched to each other. A dead shocker (or two) will have the affect of not letting the springs return to their correct position (ie as they are when the car is not moving). If it is at the back end it will feel like that end of the car is moving up & down a lot & that the front, by comparision is relatively still. Essentially you will encounter a disharmony with the front not agreeing with the back.

A second possible option is that the bump stops on the shock absorbers are too long. This happened to me when I bought some Bilsteins & the shop didn't read the instructionss properly. An overly long bump rubber (stop) changes the spring rate when the suspension is at the end of it's compression travel & the shockers don't have a hope of properly controlling things.

Anyway, the point is that you need to diagnose the shock absorber issue (If it is real) first, before fiddling with the wheel alignment as the latter will not fix the former.

[GunMetalR33]

The springs and shocks were purchased together about 6 months ago and have been really good until about 1 month ago when I hit a rise on a dogy road.

This leads me to think that the issue is camber and toe related. I will take the car to peddars on the weekend and get an alignment done to SK's suggestions and see what happens. They can also do a shocker test cant they?

[Sydneykid]

The springs and shocks were purchased together about 6 months ago and have been really good until about 1 month ago when I hit a rise on a dogy road.

This leads me to think that the issue is camber and toe related. I will take the car to peddars on the weekend and get an alignment done to SK's suggestions and see what happens. They can also do a shocker test cant they?

The springs and Bilsteins would be still under warranty, if they turn out to be the problem.

cheers

[GunMetalR33]

SK, I will let you know how your alignment settings go.

[GunMetalR33]

OK,

I finally got the wheel alignment re-done and its setup close to what SK suggested above. I also got the shocks tested by pedders and they are fine.

Now,

on cold mornings all is fine and the car handles well under any driving condition, but it seems to play up as stated earlier when the temp is hotter, but not as bad as it was before.

I have not checked the bushes yet, but pedders said that a couple were on their way out, but not urgent.

This prob is now only showing its head after high power run or hard cornering at higher speeds. I am guessing bushes?

Any other thoughts?

[r33_racer]

I imagine they are not that expensive to replace. Things can only get better with new bushes. Everything should go back to being tight and responsive(feedback wise).

If it doesnt work at least you got new bushes right? Its one problem fixed now that will need doing later on.

[Sydneykid]

OK,

I finally got the wheel alignment re-done and its setup close to what SK suggested above. I also got the shocks tested by pedders and they are fine.

Now,

on cold mornings all is fine and the car handles well under any driving condition, but it seems to play up as stated earlier when the temp is hotter, but not as bad as it was before.

I have not checked the bushes yet, but pedders said that a couple were on their way out, but not urgent.

This prob is now only showing its head after high power run or hard cornering at higher speeds. I am guessing bushes?

Any other thoughts?

Does it still have HICAS?

cheers

[GunMetalR33]

I think your right r33_racer, it feels under responsive in the back,

what would new bushes for the back cost.

SK: Hicas has been removed with a esential lock bar.

[Trust33]

When i first bought my 33 i was going down the highway 110 klms/hr so i decided to do a little test i,brake fairly firm and pulled up into the brake down lane on ever so gradual left hand sweeper,The rear end promptly felt like it was a big boat with body roll borderline on about to start to drift.(had coil overs as the only suspension mods at the time)

So anyway i went and bought myself a pair of strut braces front and rear.The problem was much less noticeable,and felt like i had gained a shit load more controll over the beast.

I think that the initial brakeing was causeing the car to dip the front and let the left inside rear tyre lift causing the uneven trye contact on the road,thus making the car feel unstable.

M2C.....

P.S.If the car has bodge bushes with heaps of movement,you wont get the response from the car your after.Likewise if you take it to the track without a good suspension setup.

I have just driven a new SS 6.0L,and while the power is there.The handeling has left a bit to be desired for.I think that the only thing that it has going for it,from a track car point of veiw,is the re040 potenza's.Still what can you expect from a brand new 2006 model car.

With coil overs,good tyres and some fetteling it could be much better though.

[GunMetalR33]

Thanks for you reply TrustR33,

I have allways had strut braces front and back and this handling feeling is new to my car. Happened after I got a little bit of air over a rise on the road.

So atm my wheel alignment settings are fine, and so are my shocks. So this is why I reakon my Bushes are a bit worn.

The issue seems worse on hot days, on cold morning in canberra I can barly notice it.

[bbe]

i drift my 32 4door hard..allignment sounds weird to cause this cos i have wat everyone says not

-1.5 on front camber

toe in 1.5 aswell

-2.5 on rear camber

-3.0 toe

it is way more responsive with this setup but has a lil more understeer than before,but like i said its way more responsive and tighter

i had that loose feeling,replaced my tie rods it left,but im really thinking its your rear cradle bushes

i still run hicas yes goin bag it,but learn to use it and it kiks ass