Ca18det Timing

[banger]

Hi all,

I have a datsun 1200 ute running (used to anyway) with a CA18DET and a Stinger 4424 EMS (I am using the stock CAS and have tried both the new and old one, and I am using a map sensor). I swapped my old CA for a fresh version recently and now I cannot get it started. To date i have:

• had the injectors cleaned
  
• changed the fuel pressure regulator for one that I know works
  
• checked fuel pressure
  
• changed the wiring to all ignitors to make sure they fire with a strong spark
  
• changed the spark plugs (NGK iridiums)
  
• checked to make sure all injectors fire, as well as all spark plugs
  
• checked base timing
  

Everything in the list is ok except for the base timing.

The timing should be 15+- 5 degrees BTDC.... to check this with a stinger EMS, you set the base timing value to locked, and then (i am using an inductive timing light), then check the timing. As per Timing.jpg () , the reference point when looking at at the front of the engine is on the top right, however the light is flashing and marking the timing to the left.

As per the s13 engine manual ():

I then, turned the engine over until the cylinder head is right at the top of the compression stroke. The timing marks on the pulley then lined up correctly with the timing reference point....

I removed the cam cover and as per the above diagram, the two white marks on the cam gears were in the correct position, and the number of teeth between the marks was correct. See

They only thing I didnt do last night was remove the pulley and bottom timing cover to check the position of the crank and the marking there......

My question is, what could be causing the timing to be so far out....

[GunMetalR33]

Already started a topic for this, Oh well yours is more descriptive anyway...

[SECURITY]

my tuner told me: when using your timing light dont lock the little U clip thingo, keep it open but let it hang off the signal wire.

i found that the difference this made was a -10BTDC, i set my timing to 17 with it locked and it ran like shit.

later when i found out to keep the clip open it was on 6!

[banger]

What U clip thing is that?? I am locking the static timing in the computer (which is what the manual and site admins claim you need to do to check the timing).

my tuner told me: when using your timing light dont lock the little U clip thingo, keep it open but let it hang off the signal wire.

i found that the difference this made was a -10BTDC, i set my timing to 17 with it locked and it ran like shit.

later when i found out to keep the clip open it was on 6!

[blind_elk]

Joe's referring to the sliding clip that closes the inductive pickup around the trigger wire.

The timing is way too far advanced. If the CAS is like RB series ones, it should have a locating half-moon key on the ex camshaft. However, they are prone to snapping off, which allows the CAS to installed in the wrong position.

I suspect that the locating teeth are 1 set out. Carefully withdraw the CAS, and rotate its shaft counter clockwise about 20 deg, then re-install. That should get you close.

[r33_racer]

they are a common prick of a thing...i broke god knows how many in my old sil80 with a ca. Gave up on the thing and put an rb20 in it instead

Need to keep the pivot point greased up all the time and that the spacing is spot on and no excess pressure is being applied to flex the drive.

[banger]

Thanks guys!

Ill have a look - from what I saw last night I was pretty sure that the half moon was still on the CAS and the cam gear....

however, should the half moon in the CAS come all the way to the very edge - or is it sunken inside about halfway down the shaft?

And ill see if I can rotate the sucker and put it back in! thanks!!!

Cheers,

Scott

Edited September 12, 2006 by banger

[GunMetalR33]

From what I could tell from last night the half moon was still on the exhaust cam so there is only one way we could put it in.

Is there any other way for the timing to be this far out without it being the CAS? Also does anyone know if a rb25det CAS will work in a CA18DET????

[banger]

So I checked the cam gear - and the half moon is definately still there... I compared this to the old engine that I took out, and the alignment of the half moon in comparision with the white mark on the cam gear is exactly the same - however, the half moon on the old engine is missing...

So could someone have deliberately broken this off so they could adjust the timing or is it likely that the CAS is stuffed (but I have two, one from the old engine which was running and the new engine, both yield same result).........

[GunMetalR33]

Is there anyone in canberra that could lend us a CAS for a CA18DET.

[blind_elk]

Also does anyone know if a rb25det CAS will work in a CA18DET????

RB25 CAS runs 6 cylinders, CA18 is only 4 cylinders!!

You're both absolutely positive that both camshafts are aligned correctly with each other and the crank. I happen to have a 4-cylinder CAS, which I purchased by mistake (well, I was told it was a RB20 unit). Slip me a few $$, and I can send it to you.

[midnight]

are u taking the timing by putting the induction clip thing on a lead between coil pack 1 and sparkplug number 1?

Ive found with CAs the loop on the loom can give incorrect timing.

[GunMetalR33]

Yea, We measured the timing with the timing light on a lead between the 1st coil and sparky.

are u taking the timing by putting the induction clip thing on a lead between coil pack 1 and sparkplug number 1?

Ive found with CAs the loop on the loom can give incorrect timing.

[banger]

Just found out some extra info (I have read this a couple times before)

All Nissan Crank Angle Sensors need to be re positioned.

Nissan Sensors are normally set to 60 deg BTDC.

The ecu requires the trigger sensor to be positioned approx.

5 - 15 Deg. BTDC.

If the engine is fitted with a Distributor the Rotor button(if driven via a gear) or optical sensor or disk needs to be repositioned (if no gear drive) .

So i need to remove the locator on the cam gear so I can reposition it from the 60 it is now to 5-15 BTDC

[GunMetalR33]

So this afternoon we are going to break the half moon of the cam shaft and re-position the CAS to the right in the hope of retarding the timing some what.

[krizza_ca18det]

Why would you want to break the CAS drive off the exh cam? Generally when this happens you need to replace the cam as the timing jumps all over the place without a solid drive. Why don't you just undo the 3 bolts holding the CAS onto the timing cover and turn it until you get the timing reading your ECU is expecting. Then mark it and drill/tap 3 new holes in the timing cover to locate the CAS in the correct position.

[jaik]

From memory the notches on the CA are (in degrees)

-5 0 5 10 15 20

My RB goes up to

0 5 10 15 20 25 30

One issue I had was I was setting the engine/cas to run 15 degrees which is normal - but autos require 20 degrees on standard ecu

JK

[dead32]

just a quick cheak first up, make sure the engine itself is correctly timmed at tdc, make sure its true tdc, dont go by markings as such, just make sure the motor comes on compression number 1 and then cheak marks, keyway's on the crank couldve sherred off or distored, just be sure

[GunMetalR33]

We broke the notch off the cam last night and re-positioned the CAS and she STARTED!!!! Base timming is spot on now and all that's required is a re-tune of the ecu and hopfully she will run smooth as.

[dead32]

dodgy