Can't Adjust Ignition Timing

[murrayis]

Hey guys just got back from my tuner and we are having some problems adjusting the ignition timing, we adjust it in the ecu but it doesnt actualy change the timing, when we used the timing light it went way past all the marks once we opened the throttle.

This is in a r32 gtst, just wondering if anyone else has come across this before and how did they fix it.

HKS cam gears have been fitted with intake 0 and exhaust +1

cheers in advance

[MR331307]

Starting point is

Lock timing

on static (10 Degrees)

Now with timing lock on you will find that with the timing light reguardless of how much you rev it it should stay on 10 degrees timing

if it jumps you have some noise in the line or problems with the Cam sensor

once timing is checked unlock the locked timing feature and check your ignition maps

[murrayis]

Which timing notch should it be on? we tried to adjust it manualy so it lines up with the first mark (far left) but couldnt get it lower than the second from the left.

Car goes back on the dyno thursday night so if you can suject as many things as possible so we can try them all

Thanks MR331307

[MR331307]

ok

now

all depends

whos tuning the car

depending on static Ignition (The timing set in the ecu)

its really long to explain

but

ill try to make it easy

Static timing is where the miniumin timing retard is set.From factory this is 10 degrees but most tuners set this on 0 as a safety.

the Max advance can also be set.

By modifying any of these also modifies the ignition maps.Now leave this on 10 and lock the timing,The mark should be on the 3rd from the left looking front on the car. After you check the Live timing unlock the Timing lock and check the Ignition maps in the ecu.Once set with a timing light check that the ignition is advancing correctly.

When tuning in a ignition map make sure you take into consideration.

Fuel used

Boost run

Engine Compression (Static comp)

cams

Air temps( sizing of intercoolers)

as a starting point.

Whos tuning the car,Whats been done, Is the Ecu a lt12 plug n play

You might find if you couldnt lower the timing that the cam sensor is one tooth out

Edited November 14, 2006 by MR331307

[murrayis]

Yes it is the LT12 Plug n Play.

Can you and do you have to set in the microtech what you have the cam gears set at?

Current mods are as follow's

Bosch 040

Highmount t04e

fmic

microtech

15psi boost

Full 3" turbo back exhaust

Comes on full boost about 4800 and hits 240rwhp at 5200 where it just starts to ping as we can't change the ignition timing to suit. Its sitting at about 12:1 - 12.5:1 all the way through to 5200rpm

Edited November 14, 2006 by murrayis

[blind_elk]

Which timing notch should it be on? we tried to adjust it manualy so it lines up with the first mark (far left) but couldnt get it lower than the second from the left.

The left-most mark is TDC. The right-most is 30 BTDC, and they are 5 deg increments.

[murrayis]

We were adjusting it too 40 BTDC and it was going miles off the marks, well it was going miles off the marks without adjusting it in the ecu, it seemed to be going out too 80DTDC

Edited November 14, 2006 by murrayis

[chris davey]

Listen to MR331307.

Get static timing spot on and then if it isn't right then you have RFI. interference.

Any leads near the cam or crank sensor wires?

[murrayis]

Don't think so there all in there factory position only thing different is the coil cover has been taken off and the ignition module is jsut sitting there but the earth wire it arrached to the head

[rob82]

The way I'm understanding the situation is that you set the static timing to 10degrees and there isn't enough adjustment in the cam angle sensor to get the timing to be somewhere close? IF this is the case then this to check are:

1. Crank reference point to make sure the balancer hasn't spun. Pull number 1 plug out and make sure its at TDC when the balancer reads 0deg.

2. Make sure the cam timing is correct.

3. Check that the crank reference within the microtech is set to where it should be. Its under something stupid like crank refernce but the value is in percentage where it should be degrees BTDC - it always throws me off.

4. THe other thing to check is if you have timing control. If you advance the timing globally(with the timing not locked) does it move by the amount you have inputted?

Also rememeber that the minimum timing number you can run is whatever the static timing is. So if it is set to 15deg and you command a total advance of 10degrees you will still have 15deg.

Also make sure you check the timing on a lead from coil to plug.

[murrayis]

Well the car goes on the dyno tonight to try sort this out we spoke with Tim from microtech yesterday who said it could be because of wasted spark.

Pretty much the micotech fires 2 plugs at a time so it fires one on the compression stroke and the other on the exhaust stroke, so effectively doubling the ignition timing reading, so he said all you have to do is half what you set it too on the timing gun.

Does this sound correct?

Cheers

[murrayis]

Well, Just got home and still no go, we put a standard ecu back in and all the timing was spot on, no problems also managed to destroy my wastegate so it doesnt open so we couldnt put the foot down with the standard ecu to see what power figures it would make as we noticed it was hitting full boost 15psi at 3500rpm, being very strange as its a t04e :|

We are starting to think that the problem is the microtech ecu maybe being faulty, as when we plug it in the timing goes all over the place, and we set the timing to static and locked and it still went all over the place.

Anyway car goes back on the dyno saturday after we replace or fix the wastegate hopefully after speaking with microtech tomorrow we are closer to a resolution.

Cameron

Edited November 16, 2006 by murrayis

[MR331307]

Well, Just got home and still no go, we put a standard ecu back in and all the timing was spot on, no problems also managed to destroy my wastegate so it doesnt open so we couldnt put the foot down with the standard ecu to see what power figures it would make as we noticed it was hitting full boost 15psi at 3500rpm, being very strange as its a t04e :|

We are starting to think that the problem is the microtech ecu maybe being faulty, as when we plug it in the timing goes all over the place, and we set the timing to static and locked and it still went all over the place.

Anyway car goes back on the dyno saturday after we replace or fix the wastegate hopefully after speaking with microtech tomorrow we are closer to a resolution.

Cameron

Tims a top bloke and will sort it out for you

Anyways

are you running wasted spark or what are u running

In the ecu handset press down twice and left 2 or 3 times and it will come up

Waste or Seqential

set it seq

and make sure its the same on the injectors

i use microtech all the time and have never had any problems with them untillllll someone who doesnt know what there doing mucks around with them

Whos ur dyno tuner and where you from

[MR331307]

Well the car goes on the dyno tonight to try sort this out we spoke with Tim from microtech yesterday who said it could be because of wasted spark.

Pretty much the micotech fires 2 plugs at a time so it fires one on the compression stroke and the other on the exhaust stroke, so effectively doubling the ignition timing reading, so he said all you have to do is half what you set it too on the timing gun.

Does this sound correct?

Cheers

and by what youve explained to tim is that ur running wasted spark

[murrayis]

Not sure it was tim who said it sounded like it was wastes spark.

I'm in brissie, tuner is a guy i know he mainly does 8's don;t want to name names.

Not sure that its running but it will be set to what ever it is out of the box, i'll try check it in the morning

MR331307 if your on msn i'll have a word to you shortly

Cheers

[HRthirtyone]

i run wasted spark setup.... rb20 microtech lt12s plug n play. Not to hard to set the timing, just put a plug lead from the coil pak to the spark plug and use the timing light the normal way.

Or if you want to use the nissan timing loop on the ignition loom you just have the sensor for the timing light opened not closed around the wire and it should not double the timing.

[murrayis]

yea we have been running it off the coilpack wire.

I'll check what its set too in the morning might shed some light but i am pretty sure it's set to seq

[MR331307]

yea we have been running it off the coilpack wire.

I'll check what its set too in the morning might shed some light but i am pretty sure it's set to seq

yeah let me know

and

Microtechs usually never have any probs

they are all setup by hand and programed individually

have u jump started or shorted the car out

[murrayis]

ok well i just pluged my laptop in and checked it its deffinetly on Sequencial.

I've never jump started it or shorted it out, why?

[murrayis]

I was jsut wondering if there is naything you need to do to the microtech to make it suite a r32 GTST? i know they come with a base map for a r33 GTST but is there anything you have to do to make it work with a rb20?