R33 Rb30 Conversion

[Alf]

You should know you own one.

If you read back through the 93 pages you'll find that supercharging the rb has been covered.

[StockyMcStock]

oh my god, stop clogging this useful thread up with crap. i was being facetious.

here's a few facts:

toyota and whipple are two different companies, and their blowers are COMPLETELY different.

currently i have an SC-14 on my RB30. i know what they are, and i know that supercharging has been covered because i did it.

whipple blowers are produced by lysholm AB industries in sweden. this is what is going onto my 25/30 hybrid engine. they are capable of massive power outputs with huge top-end airflow and no lag.

so stop posting useless stuff you obviously have no clue about. "toyota whipple blower" eh? where can i get one?

[RB30-POWER]

Stocky, you can't just not feed the vct from an external block source because it also feeds the front cam seal as well.

If you don't hook the vct gallery up the cam and seal will be rooted very quickly.

Also dont forget the front water gallery near the vct oil feed hole on the head surface needs some material added to it for a good seal. When you are getting the head reco, get them to weld the gallery up so it seals good.

And because you need that welded you might as well get the old vct gallery welded as well, rather then using a grub screw/plug.

[StockyMcStock]

ah okay i was under the impression that it could be simply welded up and re-faced, obviously not! so i HAVE to feed oil into that gallery somehow then? i might as well use the VCT then, it will be just as easy. i think i can set up an RPM trigger to feed 12V to the solenoid when it needs it, shouldn't be too hard. or i can just leave it unplugged.

so you're 100% sure i have to feed oil up to that gallery? i am sure i have heard of a few people just blocking it off with a grub screw and leaving it, that's all.

[the phantom]

The grub screw you've heard about blocks off the hole at the head/cylinder interface as there is no matching oil supply hole in the rb30 block as in the rb25. If you dont block it off your external oil feed will leak through this hole.

I played around with disconnecting the VCT solenoid on my stock cammed RB30DET and found that without it the bottom end was noticeably doughy. It is a relatively minor mod compared to implementing a blower system...

[Alf]

oh my god, stop clogging this useful thread up with crap. i was being facetious.

so stop posting useless stuff you obviously have no clue about.

I used to own a sc14 blower (not on an RB that's wrong) The bearings went in it coz I pushed it past 11psi.

Have you had the internals ceramic coated? coz going past 11psi with these things generate so much heat they melt the teflon coated internals.

i know that supercharging has been covered because i did it.

Please read the previous 93 pages, you have not mentioned about this but others have. It's worth reading everypage and saves the frustration of having to explain it all over again.

my target is 350-400 ponies at the wheels (300kw or so) and i simply don't need any more than that. from all my calcs, i am pretty sure i'll only need about 14-15 psi at the most to achieve this (not from a turbo) so i should be right with stock cams etc.

I know who you are and I know you mean well but 400rwhp is asking too much from that blower that's suited to a 2L.

Have a look at the link for a larger version of this blower. http://www.oguraclutch.co.jp/english/e_pro...sc/sc_siyou.htm

Sure, you can up the psi but doubt it's guna last you long.

PS: read the last 93 pages, you'll get a better idea then.

Keep the insults etc.. out this thread it's not needed here.

[StockyMcStock]

whipple blowers are produced by lysholm AB industries in sweden. this is what is going onto my 25/30 hybrid engine. they are capable of massive power outputs with huge top-end airflow and no lag.

PS: read 4 posts up and stop making a fool of yourself. telling me to read 93 pages of material and then, yourself, not even reading my posts before advising me on what to do is a little silly, no?

The grub screw you've heard about blocks off the hole at the head/cylinder interface as there is no matching oil supply hole in the rb30 block as in the rb25. If you dont block it off your external oil feed will leak through this hole.

yep i understand all of this no problems, just don't know how other people got away with not supplying oil at all to the forward cam seal and gallery there. because i have definately heard/seen pics of RB30DET's with the VCT oil feed welded up, and no external supply at all to the oil seal.

any ideas?

[Alf]

PS: read 4 posts up and stop making a fool of yourself. telling me to read 93 pages of material and then, yourself, not even reading my posts before advising me on what to do is a little silly, no?

You still don't quite understand. The blower used on the toyotas are whipple style blower. If you havent pulled both apart then trying doing that before replying.

If you cannot comprehend i'll show you the blowers in person.

Ps: You could put the motor into a better car tho.

[StockyMcStock]

they are in no way similar to a whipple blower at all, the whipple uses two counter-rotating screws which compress the air charge axially as they rotate. this is why it's called a twin-screw lysholm type blower.

the toyota blowers have two counter-rotating vanes which take a gulp of air and blow it out the other side. this is characteristic of a roots blower.

they are absolutely not the same in any way, shape or form. their only similarity is that they are both superchargers of some description.

whipple:

i don't have any inside shots of my SC-14 but perhaps you could post some up and understand just how different the two really are. apart from the casings looking vaguely similar, they are completely different. don't try and argue that a roots type blower is the same "style" as a twin screw because that's just stupid.

anyway back to the 25/30 thread here, is there any possibility of modifying the block to have another oil supply to the forward VCT gallery and using an RB25 head gasket? perhaps by drilling a hole into the nearest oil supply line and re-routing a portion of the flow to the new hole leading to the VCT gallery?

[Sydneykid]

Perhaps we should move the supercharger posts to a new thread, this thread is really about RB30DET's.

PS, You don't get something for nothing, whipples need a lot of power to drive them (30 kw is not unusual) and they heat the inlet air charge up a lot (100 degrees C is also not unusual). This is a lot more power loss and heat generation than other designs. As I said, you don't get something for nothing, you have to pay the toll somewhere.

[StockyMcStock]

ah good to see someone took that flow chart i posted on board at least, yeah 40-50 horsepower to drive it at peak power, and they do generate heat, but then again i've seen some turbo flow charts with similar discharge temps. the gain is in the lack of lag, i'm just keen to try something new that's all. hate driving laggy cars on the street that's all.

but i digress, can anyone answer my questions above regarding the block modding or front cam oil seal?

[Sydneykid]

ah good to see someone took that flow chart i posted on board at least, yeah 40-50 horsepower to drive it at peak power, and they do generate heat, but then again i've seen some turbo flow charts with similar discharge temps. the gain is in the lack of lag, i'm just keen to try something new that's all. hate driving laggy cars on the street that's all.

but i digress, can anyone answer my questions above regarding the block modding or front cam oil seal?

I have answered this question so many times in this thread. Test it yourself, block off the VVT oil feed (on the bottom of the cylinder head) with a finger. Then supply compressed air to the oil feed hole at the #1 camshaft bearing. You will find that the air circulates around the oil supply holes to the other camshaft bearings, ie; they are all joined up. You only need the EXTRA oil feed for the VVT becuase it needs a good supply of oil pressure. The #1 bearing oil supply is the bleed off, otherwise the oil pressure would be trapped there and the VVT wouldn't turn off when the solenoid is closed.

PS, a correctly sized tutbo should NOT go over 70 degrees C air inlet temp, but a correctly sized whipple will ALWAYS have to go over 100 degrees C to make its target power. As for no lag, it depends on your interpretion of LAG. The problem with a whipple (and all superchargers for that matter) is that they require increased rpm to supply increased air flow. So they have to be accelerated by the engine before the engine can accelerate the car. This means slowed response to throttle changes, both accelerate and decelerate. Propelry sized wastegates and BOV's have meant that turbochargers don't lag (sorry) behind as much as they used to.

[StockyMcStock]

You will find that the air circulates around the oil supply holes to the other camshaft bearings, ie; they are all joined up. You only need the EXTRA oil feed for the VVT becuase it needs a good supply of oil pressure. The #1 bearing oil supply is the bleed off, otherwise the oil pressure would be trapped there and the VVT wouldn't turn off when the solenoid is closed.

hmm two contradictory opinions, but it seems like you've done this a number of times. when i get the head next week hopefully i'll give it a go, come to my own conclusion.

and just a quickie, i have two options that i know of in terms of cam belt idlers/tensioners etc. do you suggest using the option of drilling a new idler stud hole up the top of the block or using two tensioners down the bottom near the crank pulley? the only advantage i can see of the former is less belt length on the slack side of the belt so perhaps less capability of belt whip/flop.

p.s. turbo vs supercharger, each to their own i guess. when it's running i'll let you know how it goes. hopefully the answer to that is "quickly".

[Sydneykid]

hmm two contradictory opinions, but it seems like you've done this a number of times. when i get the head next week hopefully i'll give it a go, come to my own conclusion.  

and just a quickie, i have two options that i know of in terms of cam belt idlers/tensioners etc. do you suggest using the option of drilling a new idler stud hole up the top of the block or using two tensioners down the bottom near the crank pulley? the only advantage i can see of the former is less belt length on the slack side of the belt so perhaps less capability of belt whip/flop.

p.s. turbo vs supercharger, each to their own i guess. when it's running i'll let you know how it goes. hopefully the answer to that is "quickly".

I ALWAYS use the high mounted belt tensioner. In my opinion the low mounting position brings the belt too close together, the teeth are facing each other with sometimes less than 8 mm of separation. A little slack and you would have teeth to teeth contact at 6,000 rpm, and that does not make me feel very comfortable.

[RB30-POWER]

I ALWAYS use the high mounted belt tensioner.  In my opinion the low mounting position brings the belt too close together, the teeth are facing each other with sometimes less than 8 mm of separation.   A little slack and you would have teeth to teeth contact at 6,000 rpm, and that does not make me feel very comfortable.

Couldn't agree more, i looked at this in great detail when i built my motor, if you use the relocated tensioner the belt won't catch like it could do if you use the factory stud locations (which are way to close for this app) and with the relocated tensioner it also wraps the belt around the pullies better for more grip.

[low747]

Gary,

don't stock rb26's let alone the os giken 3 litre kit use the lower tensioner and pulley setup? Meaning the belt has similar teeth clearance?

.

I ALWAYS use the high mounted belt tensioner.  In my opinion the low mounting position brings the belt too close together, the teeth are facing each other with sometimes less than 8 mm of separation.   A little slack and you would have teeth to teeth contact at 6,000 rpm, and that does not make me feel very comfortable.

[StockyMcStock]

I ALWAYS use the high mounted belt tensioner.

no problem, it looks a lot better to me as well, for all the reasons you mentioned above.

two more questions then:

1) can you do it by eye with a hand drill?

2) how deep do you drill the hole to avoid going into the water gallery?

[RB30-POWER]

I made up a rig and clamped it to the block to help guide the drill bit completely square to the front block surface.

It must be absolutely right!

Then tapping it you have to constantly check with a 90deg square to make sure the thread is square with the front of the block surface.

I had an old block i practiced on first.

If its not absolutely correct the tensioner will sit on an angle andwear the belt and bearing, it may also not have enough grip if the trnsioner doesnt sit flush against the surface and may slip in use.

Someone may have a better idea but thats how i done it.

Because i had a spare block i was able to test the water gallery depth so to speak.

Its less than 9mm thats for sure, i had to cut the thread on the stud so it bottoms out.

I done it this way, but i really don't know if use would have trouble even if you went into the gallery and just used thread sealant on it, atleast that way the stud would have more thread/grip??

[dnb]

yes you need all the depth you can get. mine goes through into the water. it wont be a problem at all

[gtst25]

How do you think this would go on a rb25/30 with standard rb25 manifold?

The add in horsepowerinabox.com says it can fit the stock exhaust manifold with an adapter.