Goin The Other Way

[trivial]

Hi, just joined and i'm already brimming with questions...

Anyway...

Basically i'm interested in the Sydneykid suspension, however i already have aftermarket shocks and springs in a 180sx.

My guess is that the suspension is about 8/7(will follow this through with a proper testing, after i get some initial response too see if it's worthwhile(dyno shocks, etc))...e.g. potholes and ripply roads are the bane of driving, however handling up twisties(without said problem) is a joy. They're kyb fronts and apexi rears. (so as i've read...cheap valving).

Revalving my shocks is not economical(as buying new shocks is cheaper).

**the question is: can i switch to softer springs without damaging the shocks(ie like in sydneykid's thread whereby using lowered springs will damage the shock). my shocks are aftermarket with what i assume are higher valve ratings.

-I don't want the car lower(so softer spring rates might not hit bumpstops???advice please)

-The reason i haven't just ditched them, is because they're still in good nick and I don't want to put in effort selling them to recoup money...when i could just use them.

-Also Sydneykid's package seems intent on trackwork, i prefer just going for long cruises on twisties. So not sure if the full package suits me.

2. If so how low(spring rate wise...) can i go?

3. Would i need a longer coil to compensate-so it doesn't hit bumpstops?

4. Would i need to modify the bumpstops?

**I understand that bilsteins are far superior, and the ride will be very nice. But my intent for the moment is just to have a comfortable ride, more then being able to get every second out of every corner (just at this moment). So will just changing spring work?

I've read Sydneykid's topic of going lowered springs with stock shocks(still not sure if that applies here), and read through 10+ pages of searched topics, asked on ns.com and pm'd around.. however i can't find the answer to what i'm looking for exactly.(or i've konked out and am too dazed too realise what i've read).

I understand without a concise analysis i won't get the most accurate answers..however a little knowledge is better then none.

Any advice appreciated.

Cheers

[discopotato03]

You should probably try to get a ride in a car with the Whitline / Bilstein everything kit fitted . You have been warned , you may be living on baked beans for a fortnight to afford it but its worth it even if windows jamb shut .

Cheers .

Edited February 3, 2007 by discopotato03

[(B1) MR_fanny]

yeah im in exactly the same boat as you with my tein ha's in my 33. also looking at replacing them with SK's setup but want to know the ride difference good or bad from jap coilovers.

[trivial]

oh, i'm sure it's good. And i definitely know that jap coilovers are poor on our streets due to the stiffer valving and springrates.(though some argue for the super street teins by fulcrum) So i thought it'd be a logical move to lower the spring rate and see how that goes? But it seems that the poor reactions to bumps is due too the overall shock and spring combo, then it is just the springs.

Sydneykid, if you're around...spread some light on the upcoming s13 setup please!

Is there anyone in Vic who has a spare 10 minutes and the SK setup for me to just sit in their car? Pm me ... I really do want to know what it's all about..

Edited February 3, 2007 by trivial

[salad]

Hi, just joined and i'm already brimming with questions...

Anyway...

Basically i'm interested in the Sydneykid suspension, however i already have aftermarket shocks and springs in a 180sx.

My guess is that the suspension is about 8/7(will follow this through with a proper testing, after i get some initial response too see if it's worthwhile(dyno shocks, etc))...e.g. potholes and ripply roads are the bane of driving, however handling up twisties(without said problem) is a joy. They're kyb fronts and apexi rears. (so as i've read...cheap valving).

Revalving my shocks is not economical(as buying new shocks is cheaper).

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...showtopic=79157

Once you have measured your springs, SK can work out your spring rates and have a better idea of where to go from there.

**the question is: can i switch to softer springs without damaging the shocks(ie like in sydneykid's thread whereby using lowered springs will damage the shock). my shocks are aftermarket with what i assume are higher valve ratings.

-I don't want the car lower(so softer spring rates might not hit bumpstops???advice please)

-The reason i haven't just ditched them, is because they're still in good nick and I don't want to put in effort selling them to recoup money...when i could just use them.

-Also Sydneykid's package seems intent on trackwork, i prefer just going for long cruises on twisties. So not sure if the full package suits me.

As far as I know, softer springs than the shock is designed for wont damage the shock, but it is bad for handling. The groupbuy is aimed at street driving with some spirited driving too, so it is pretty much aimed at what you use the car for.

2. If so how low(spring rate wise...) can i go?

3. Would i need a longer coil to compensate-so it doesn't hit bumpstops?

4. Would i need to modify the bumpstops?

2. The groupbuy uses springs that are only 25% stiffer than stock. If I remember right, that's about 3kg/mm in the front, and a bit softer in the back.

3. The longer coil would raise your car and probly not something you'd want

4. The bumpstops have to be trimmed to suit the ride height you're running. SK has a picture of where to trim the bumpstops that I'm sure he'll put up when he sees this thread.

**I understand that bilsteins are far superior, and the ride will be very nice. But my intent for the moment is just to have a comfortable ride, more then being able to get every second out of every corner (just at this moment). So will just changing spring work?

I've read Sydneykid's topic of going lowered springs with stock shocks(still not sure if that applies here), and read through 10+ pages of searched topics, asked on ns.com and pm'd around.. however i can't find the answer to what i'm looking for exactly.(or i've konked out and am too dazed too realise what i've read).

I understand without a concise analysis i won't get the most accurate answers..however a little knowledge is better then none.

Any advice appreciated.

Cheers

Find out the current spring rates, and then go from there. The problem with most of the Japanese coilovers is that they try and control all the roll with spring rates, which gives a very harsh ride. SK's groupbuy however uses swaybars to control roll and quite soft springs so ride comfort is retained.

I've got the groupbuy too, but mine is more aimed at trackwork (7/5kg/mm springs, bigger swaybars, stiffer valving to suit) and it is still far more comfortable than any of the Jap coilovers I've had before. Not just because of the springs, but the dampers are more sophisticated and have a more digression than the Japs.

I also rode in a car with the normal groupbuy and damn it's comfortable. But still very good handling on the street, mine is too stiff for the street and bumps present a problem when going fast for my car.

Edited February 4, 2007 by salad

[WazR32GTSt]

i use standard springs over the bilstein shocks from the group buy...

i can still lower the car with the additional circlip grooves on the shocks, but ride cdomfort is 100% as per stock

so essentially i get a car that sits lower (for looks), handles better, but with stokc ride comfort..

yes its not going to handle as a car with stiffer springs but it is better than stock and perfect for my needs as i never plan on seeing track time.. ever.

[trivial]

thanks again showza =)

Yeah, i guess it's time to save up for a proper ride then =P I don't think there's any point wasting money on something i'm going to get later anyway.

Sydneykid show us what you got for the s13/180!!

[Topaz]

I currently have standard shocks with King springs installed. Dropped my car off this morning to get the SK full kit installed. Can't wait to feel the difference.

Are King springs typically hard or soft?

[trivial]

please let me know..what you were using beforehand and the results afterwoulds! very interested...

I've heard that kings are typically soft(only 25% harder then stock)

[salad]

From memory the spring rate from Kings was 175lbm/in compared to 165lbm/in for Whiteline for an R32 GTS-t. I'm fairly sure that Kings are usually a bit stiffer than Whiteline springs, I remember Gary (SK) saying something about that anyway.

[khunjeng]

thats right...

WIth the Bilstiens use can adjust ride-height with thecirclip grooves on the shocks without affecting shocker travel.

I have them, but with slightly different spring rates than the GB and its awsome...

As for the Kings...they make a "matched" sping for the Bilstiens. I used:

KDFL-101 - 175lb/" / 3.1kg/mm

KDRL-61SP - 185lb/" / 3.2kg/mm

Just perfect.

[(B1) MR_fanny]

are those spring ratings higher than the whiteline gb? what height setting is that on your pic? did you have jap coilovers before? very interested on your review.

thanks.

[Sydneykid]

are those spring ratings higher than the whiteline gb? what height setting is that on your pic? did you have jap coilovers before? very interested on your review.

thanks.

The Kings springs rates are slightly higher on the front than Whielines in the Group Buy. Same handling but slightly better ride.

The Whiteline rears springs are progressive, slightly softer than the Kings initially and slightly firmer thereafter. Better ride and better handling

I tried Kings when I was doing the Group Buy engineering, the Whitelines were simply better, better handling, better ride and superior quality. Plus a cheaper price.

cheers

[1R34SON]

I cant stand seeing my car at a stock height anymore. I dont need suspension for any track work, just for general driving everyday. I'd prefer not to attract yellow stickers, I got 19x9.5 inch rear wheels on my 34. Can anyone suggest something for me? or anyone that I can come see? Im sick of it and want to change it. Soo much talk on suspension i dont know where to go, help please!

[Sydneykid]

I cant stand seeing my car at a stock height anymore. I dont need suspension for any track work, just for general driving everyday. I'd prefer not to attract yellow stickers, I got 19x9.5 inch rear wheels on my 34. Can anyone suggest something for me? or anyone that I can come see? Im sick of it and want to change it. Soo much talk on suspension i dont know where to go, help please!

With 19" wheels, the tyres have basically no sidewall to absorb impacts, so you are going to need suspension that has the capacity to soak up the bumps. Otherwise the discomfort will drive you and your passengers crazy, so keep that in mind when choosing the suspension.

The most effective way to lower it, maintain reasonable ride comfort and achieve superior handling is by changing the shocks. The Bilsteins in the Group Buy come with additional circlip grooves which enable you to lower it using the standard springs. Around 20 mm works very well, that's 365 mm centre of wheel to guard. If you want to go lower than that then you have no choice but to change the springs as well. When selecting the Group Buy kit, I found the Whiteline springs to offer the best ride compromise.

You will find the Group Buy details here;

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...showtopic=88141

Cheers

Gary

[1R34SON]

With 19" wheels, the tyres have basically no sidewall to absorb impacts, so you are going to need suspension that has the capacity to soak up the bumps. Otherwise the discomfort will drive you and your passengers crazy, so keep that in mind when choosing the suspension.

The most effective way to lower it, maintain reasonable ride comfort and achieve superior handling is by changing the shocks. The Bilsteins in the Group Buy come with additional circlip grooves which enable you to lower it using the standard springs. Around 20 mm works very well, that's 365 mm centre of wheel to guard. If you want to go lower than that then you have no choice but to change the springs as well. When selecting the Group Buy kit, I found the Whiteline springs to offer the best ride compromise.

You will find the Group Buy details here;

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...showtopic=88141

Cheers

Gary

Good man, I had a look at the link and I think 20mm lower will be nice and ill see how that goes, can you please tell me what i'll need exactly and how much?

Just two more questions that u probably get too often..

1) By simply just changing the springs to lower it (keeping stock shocks) what difference am i looking at in terms of ride comfort, and the time it would take for shocks and tyres to wear compared to Bilstein shocks?

2) I presume when lowering my car with springs, rolling the rear guards might be required (as the tyres sit pretty much flush with guard looking from above the rear wheel). Do you know if id have to roll my guards if i go 20mm lower with the Bilstein shocks?

thanks for your help!

[Sydneykid]

Good man, I had a look at the link and I think 20mm lower will be nice and ill see how that goes, can you please tell me what i'll need exactly and how much?

Just two more questions that u probably get too often..

1) By simply just changing the springs to lower it (keeping stock shocks) what difference am i looking at in terms of ride comfort, and the time it would take for shocks and tyres to wear compared to Bilstein shocks?

2) I presume when lowering my car with springs, rolling the rear guards might be required (as the tyres sit pretty much flush with guard looking from above the rear wheel). Do you know if id have to roll my guards if i go 20mm lower with the Bilstein shocks?

thanks for your help!

1 Lots. Plus its is NEVER a good idea to run lowered springs with standard shocks, they can't handle the extra rate.

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...c=103158&hl

2. No, it will camber up as the suspension compresses, the same as it does now.

Cheers

Gary

[1R34SON]

My car is already sitting 365mm (center of wheel to guard) at the rear and 360mm at the front. does that mean the bilstein shocks wont change height any further? If i want to drop my car a further 20-30mm what will that take and how much would cost be including everything?

[Sydneykid]

My car is already sitting 365mm (center of wheel to guard) at the rear and 360mm at the front. does that mean the bilstein shocks wont change height any further? If i want to drop my car a further 20-30mm what will that take and how much would cost be including everything?

If the springs have sagged to that height, then when you put them onto a bottom spring seat (on the Bilstein shocks) that is 20 mm lower, then the car will be 20 mm lower. Keep in mind that GTT's handle best around 350 mm front and 340 mm rear (centre of wheel to guard). Which you can use the additional circlips on the Group Buy Bilsteins to achieve.

All prices are in the Group Buy thread, if you need further info PM is best.

Cheers

Gary

[1R34SON]

^350mm front and 340mm rear is what id want ideally, I dont know if the rears haved sagged a whole deal or not, the car has done 59000km.

So what id need is 2 pairs of the bilstein shocks? (set bottom spring seat to achieve 20mm lower).

Additional circlips to achieve 350mm front and 340mm rear? - Do circlips already come with the shocks to make that happen? Or how many do I need to purchase extra?

Julz.

PS. Sorry just read about pm being best, pm'd you cheers!

Edited April 12, 2008 by MellowYellow