New Laws Affecting P-plates As Of 01/07/2007.

[Spunky Munky]

friends,

it has come to my understanding that there seems to be varied views on the new laws that will be affecting P-plate drivers as of 01/07/2007. although arguments on both sides make sense; i thought i'd do the right thing and actually personally go into a police station and ask them myself.

i reside in melbourne, so i drove up to the nearest local police station and and bluntly asked them to confirm the above. although i had done prior research, i felt i needed to hear from the horse's mouth and the following was the short, but concise, answer they gave me. i wish to share it with everyone as i know (being a P-plater myself) that this is behind everyone's mind of recent...

the constable police office says: "to put it in the most simplest terms, only youngsters that will be graduating or getting their P-plater's license granted on or after 1st July this year will be affected."

i quickly raised another question to further confirm my understand; "does this mean that for people like myself who got their P's before this date, then we are not affected at all?"

the officer thinks for a while, consults some manual he has in front of him and confidently replies; "not quite - the answer is yes and no...yes, people in your situation will not be affected however, the new power-to-weight rations will be stricter and will be checked more regularly with more commitment from the police and traffic and road authorities."

I asked for further clarirfications and basically he advises that all P-platers that got their license before the 1st of July this year are safe - all the myth surrounding the fact that you will lose your car, lose your license if you drive a turbo car even though you had graduated yonks before this date are all bullshit. no, you're scramped in, you are safe. However, power-to-weight rations are stricter than ever and the police can actually ask you to get your car checked out by a qualified mechanic if they feel your car is too powerful whilst you're on your P's. that's it.

The above can be reiterated and confirmed by the following governmental website. There are two separate links or catergories - people that graduated before and after.

for the people who got their P's before 01/07 it just reiterates the things you should be careful of when driving a V8+ or Turbo etc and makes no mention of the fact that YOU CANNOT drive the above.

for the people that got their P's on or after 01/07, under this category, it specifically and clearly states that you are not to drive any of the above.

so that's it fellas, no more worrying nights and bullshit myths please - let the truth be heard.

so unless the cops are totally idiots, Vicroads has lost the plot and its online website is a up the creek, then yeah, I'm very sure that the above is correct.

of course, i am open to further speculations or suggestions that i am wrong.

CLICK HERE: http://www.arrivealive.vic.gov.au/c_youngGLS_9.html

[Al]

IS ANOTHER THREAD NEEDED ON THIS SHIT!

GET THE POINT: IT IS ILLEGAL TO DRIVE AN R33/34 TURBO ON P-PLATES.

Did you speak to a specialised TMU officer or just the cop behind the counter?

The power to weight law has been around for more than 15yrs, but for some reason the police have not REALLY enforced it much in the last 5yrs. Maybe due to the penalties being sooooo weak.

Due to all the shit that has happened in the last 24 months, the penalties have been revised, and will be enforced harder by the police. I believe the fine has raised from $100 to $1000 and you also now get 3 dimerit points.

THIS POWER TO WEIGHT LAW IS NOT NEW AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN THERE, JUST THE PENALTIES HAVE NOW BECOME HARSHER.

Here is the link, take note of the Penalties section: New penalties for OLD/EXISTING power to weight laws

The new laws, that only effect people that get their p-plates after 1/7/7, ban all performance cars and mods, no matter what the power to weight is.

[Spunky Munky]

I still do not think what you have said is correct.

This statement says it (please correct me if I am wrong) :

If you obtained your P plates on or before 30 June 2007, a high powered vehicle is considered to be any vehicle with a power to weight ratio over 125 kw per tonne, or with an engine capacity to weight ratio over 3.5 litres per tonne. This includes any make of car.

So this is how I would interpret it...

If got your P's before 01/07/07 basically, then you cannot have a power to weight ratio over 125 kw per tonne or any weight ratio over 3.5 litres.

now as far as I know, GTST's have the capacity of only around 110-115 kw per tonne and a weight ratio of 2.5 litres. Hence, it will fall under the specifications and therefore will be deemed legal.

It does not make any mention of a V8 or above nor does it say anything about a turbo.

I have asked nearly all my friends, have spoken to the coppers even asked a person at Vicroads and they all confirm the above.

Based on what and whom do you suggest otherwise.

I mean, please don't get me wrong, if you're right - most P-platers on here are up shyte creek.

Someone please help, I am going crazy with this. Damn it, i only got like 7 months on my P's.

Damn it.

Edited May 5, 2007 by Spunky Munky

[Al]

Where are you getting your Skyline power to weight figures from?

Power to Weight calculator

For a R33 GTST

If you go by your rego sticker: (Most likely the one police will go by)

Weight = 1200kg (i know it's wrong, but that's what it says on my rego sticker)

Factory specified power = 184kw

Power to weight = 153kw/tonne (over 125kw/tonne)

If you use factory specs:

Weight = 1340kg (i think )

Factory specified power = 184kw

Power to weight = 135kw/tonne (over 125kw/tonne)

[Spunky Munky]

Al and friends, click here:

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/News/N...redvehicles.htm

From 1 July 2007, new laws will be introduced for holders of a probationary licence, restricting them from driving a high powered vehicle.

A driver who obtains their probationary licence from 1 July 2007 will not be able to drive a vehicle that has:

eight or more cylinders;

a turbocharged or supercharged engine (except diesel powered);

an engine that has been modified to increase the vehicle’s performance; or

is a nominated high performance six cylinder car.

The current power to weight restrictions will continue to apply for any probationary driver who has obtained their licence before July 2007.

[Spunky Munky]

Where are you getting your Skyline power to weight figures from?

Power to Weight calculator

For a R33 GTST

If you go by your rego sticker: (Most likely the one police will go by)

Weight = 1200kg (i know it's wrong, but that's what it says on my rego sticker)

Factory specified power = 184kw

Power to weight = 153kw/tonne (over 125kw/tonne)

If you use factory specs:

Weight = 1340kg (i think )

Factory specified power = 184kw

Power to weight = 135kw/tonne (over 125kw/tonne)

In other words?

[Al]

Yes.................................................................

And what is the current power to weight restrictions?

Answer:

I obtained my probationary licence before 1 July 2007

If you obtained your P plates on or before 30 June 2007, a high powered vehicle is considered to be any vehicle with a power to weight ratio over 125 kw per tonne, or with an engine capacity to weight ratio over 3.5 litres per tonne. This includes any make of car.

Click Here

Penalties

From 1 July 2007 the penalty for driving a high powered vehicle will be three demerit points and a maximum fine of approximately $1100. These penalties will apply to both the current power to weight restrictions and the new high powered vehicles restrictions.

[Al]

In other words?

In other words YOUR car is over the EXISTING (NOT new law) legal power to weight ratio, therefor it is illegal for you to drive it; you are breaking the law; you can not drive it; you should sell it; you should leave it parked till you are off your P's; .......................... HAVE YOU GOT THE POINT YET.

AS ONCE YOU ARE PULLED OVER AFTER THE 1/7/7, AND IF MR OFFICER KNOWS THE LAW, YOU WILL RECEIVE A $1100 FINE AND LOOSE 3 DIMERIT POINTS.

GET CAUGHT A 2ND TIME in 12 months, YOU WILL LOOSE ANOTHER 3 POINTS, WHICH WILL EXCEED THE MAXIMUM OF 5 LOST DIMERIT POINTS PER YEAR, FOR A P-PLATER, THUS YOU WILL HAVE YOUR LICENCE SUSPENDED

[Spunky Munky]

In other words YOUR car is over the legal power to weight ratio, therefor it is illegal for you to drive it; you are breaking the law; you can not drive it; you should sell it; you should leave it parked till you are off your P's;..........................HAVE YOU GOT THE POINT YET.

AS ONCE YOU ARE PULLED OVER AFTER THE 1/7/7, AND IF MR OFFICER KNOWS THE LAW, YOU WILL RECEIVE A $1100 FINE AND LOOSE 3 DIMERIT POINTS.

GET CAUGHT A 2ND TIME in 12 months, YOU WILL LOOSE ANOTHER 3 POINTS, WHICH WILL EXCEED THE MAXIMUM OF 5 LOSE DIMERIT POINTS PER YEAR, FOR A P-PLATER, THUS YOU WILL HAVE YOUR LICENCE SUSPENDED

Fark me left-right and center..... fark fark fark fark......... arrrhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I will have to go and farken get the shyte that constable motherfarker said to me to be done in writing. Man, if you're right, the government will make heaps off fines this year as I can say, most if not all my p-plater friends believe that even if you're on your P-plates then you still can drive your turbo car.

damn it.

[Al]

I have just quoted what is on the government pages you linked to, on your first post. As i said, if he is not a TMU officer, he will not know all the traffic laws.

[Marco-R34GTT]

If anyone here is a LAW student, I'd see if you could kick over some rocks and check if such laws are in fact unconstitutional.....

apples don't seem like apples with what is going on in Victoria...

[Basti]

according to here, the r33 gtst type m, built from jan '95 to jan '96 puts out 180kw(im guessing at the flywheel) and weighs in at 1390(A/T) or 1370(M/T).

putting it in the caculator gives 129kw/ton(A/T) and 131kw/ton(M/T)

both are over the 125kw/ton limit. therefore both are illegal for ALL p platers to drive.

hmmm. im a bit slow today it seems. meh

[Al]

If anyone here is a LAW student, I'd see if you could kick over some rocks and check if such laws are in fact unconstitutional.....

apples don't seem like apples with what is going on in Victoria...

Interesting, but what exactly do you see unconstitutional?

I find these laws to be as fair as they were 15+yrs ago. The penalties have just been revised to make the punishment suit the crime. The old $100ish fine was a joke, people spend at least that much in one night, "out with the boys"; didn't deter people from braking this law.

Look how worried people are now. Even b4 the law is enforced, people are sweating in their pants because they know they have been driving an illegal car and if they didn't know, they have obviously not read the p-plater handbook.

[Marco-R34GTT]

Interesting, but what exactly do you see unconstitutional?

I find these laws to be as fair as they were 15+yrs ago.

Sometimes laws or motions can be passed in an 'unconstitutional manner', look at what is going on in WA here with our daylight saving shennanigans, the National party is crying foul and deem the manner in which the daylight savings 'trial' *cough* iron ball & chain *cough* was passed through parliment... I don't know the technicalities, but I wonder if all these silly road laws have some 'loophole' in which they can become 'untangled'. I'll have to flick through some of my sister's law stuff, I know a thing or two, but she's the lawyer...

15+ years ago??? Am I missing something??

[tjandriesen]

I'm pretty sure there isn't a constitutional right to drive a fast car....

[Spunky Munky]

That's stuffed this new law if in fact that you claim is correct.

I will have to write to the transport minister then as in my family, my mother is partially blind and cannot drive, i have to drive my brothers to school and to work, so how the hell will i drive my vehicle now? it's stuffed. i don't hoon, i don't drag or anything like that. fark me dead.

[Sydneykid]

Since it specifically mentions "an engine that has been modified to increase the vehicle’s performance", what happens if you "modify the engine to decrease the vehicle’s performance"? To get it under 125kw/tonne?

Simply the converse of this......"the police can actually ask you to get your car checked out by a qualified mechanic if they feel your car is too powerful whilst you're on your P's".

cheers

[Al]

Unfortuneately Gary the power to weight law is purely off the Factory specifications, has been for the last 15yrs.

If the police are unsure of the factory specifications, then "the police can actually ask you to get your car checked out by a qualified mechanic if they feel your car is too powerful whilst you're on your P's"; Which i interperate as a Vicroads approved engineer.

Mark: These laws have been around for 15yrs, they were introduced just b4 my brother got his P's and he is now 34yrs old . The power to weight law has not changed, just that the penality has become stiffer as alot of p-platers, like Thien and 20 others i know, have disregarded this law. This is partly due to the police not enforcing the law in the last 5yrs, so the younger people have decided to think it is legal. I remember when i was on my P's (i am now 29), the cops would pull over p-platers all the time, and amounst others check the engine to determine whether the car meets the power to weight laws (as most Aussie cars came out with engine varients. ie: 6cyl, V8, etc).

The NEW laws only apply to people applying for p-plates after the 1/7/7, these NEW laws ban ALL performance cars and ALL modifications. The government has given at least 12 months notice so that people do not buy such cars, if they intend to apply for their licence after the 1/7/7.

Thien: You have been breaking the law from the first day you bought the car, nothing has changed except now the police have gotten a push up the ass to enforce it again. Your family situation does not really reflect the type of vehicle you need to drive. The government will simply reply that you bought the car, when it is illegal to drive, simply sell it and buy a car that complies to the law.

[cliff25gtst]

yep P platers haven been alowd to drive r33 gtst but yet i see so many of them, its cause the police havent enforced this rule and the fine has also been only 100 bucks. like thats going to stop them, but now when the law comes in in july they are getting harsher on the penalties and also now losing demerit points, get done twice for it in 12 months and thats your license gone.

you will have to sell your car and buy something that applies to the rules until you are off your Ps.

so many P platers get away with this and i just wonder how many will be getting away with it once the laws are in???

[Sydneykid]

Unfortuneately Gary the power to weight law is purely off the Factory specifications, has been for the last 15yrs.

If the police are unsure of the factory specifications, then "the police can actually ask you to get your car checked out by a qualified mechanic if they feel your car is too powerful whilst you're on your P's"; Which i interperate as a Vicroads approved engineer.

I understand that, but it could be argued that they have opened the door by incorporating the "modified" engines (for higher power) ruling. In fact they have opened up the rule to incorporate "modifed" power outputs, higher or lower is still "modified". You would have check the exact wording, but it is valid argument none the less.

cheers