The Skyline and HP...... debate and comment (PLEASE NO MUD SLINGING)

[IMACUL8]

Guys, and in no way am I having a dig.. its just a observation

I dont understand your infatuation with dyno hp figures... in the sceme of things it really means fark all when comparing to other peoples figures.

I personally would consider any car running 12's or below to be a quick street car. So unless your building a dyno queen, i would start looking at other areas to increase the cars OVERALL PERFORMANCE, such as suspension, tires, etc.....

Im seeing guys with 300+ hp and still not cracking into the 12's. Why would this be?

This was the main reason I sold my car, because after all the fancy Apexi, HKS, etc stuff I put on there I still wasnt that impressed.....

Please guys, I am not bagging skylines (I still have a soft spot for them), I am just trying to determine why people keep making bulk engine mods for hp and the car is still not that quick.

Should we be moving our attention away from the motor and into other areas......

Please comment guys, I would like some serious comments and debate... NO mud sligging or bagging.....

Daniel

[caminperth]

Good thread starter. I'm just wondering what other sorts of areas you're talking about. The suspension and tyres are the first obvious ones - as you mentioned - but for alot of people that isn't going to translate into a quicker car. I think thats why most people concentrate on engine mods.

Personally I think the std handling setup of the R33 isn't too bad for it's overall weight/size. But I haven't run it on a track day yet either so am probably not in a position to comment conclusively. That and cause I don't mind conering sideways..

My preference for engine mods is mainly because I'm not going to go down the path of weight reduction - if I was I wouldn't have installed 50kgs worth of stereo in the boot! That and mostly because I need to learn some more about the philosophies behind a "quick" street car - and cause I can't think of anything else to do.

So what other areas can we look at?

[IMACUL8]

Cam..

yeah suspension would be the first are that comes to mind...

surely tires would make a big difference when it comes to the r33 traction problem.

what are the gear ratios in a r33? Would there be any gains to be had here....

Daniel

[summoner]

I beleive the approach people take in modifying skylines is wrong. They see megaHP jap cars and think yep cool easily done.. then forget about matching stuff right.

I personally if i choose to modify the cefiro will be taking into consideration mods which no1 ever mentions here.. stroking and Cams to help with off boost driving.

Overall i think people need to decide on what they want from the car before modding.. also mega hard suspension setups while good for handeling(although most suspension setups i see from japan are just rock solid without much overall thought given to it either) is absolutely useless for drag racing and u'd be better off with stock soft suspension.

Just some thoughts of mine

[IMACUL8]

Summoner...

Thats what I'm after some outside the norm thinking.....

Thats the point im trying to make, everyone seems to be trying foe bulk hp, but the cars are not really producing the goods under these circumstances.

Daniel

[rev210]

Dan,

The problem often lies with the 'plan'. Often people go about modding in a 'mish mash' approach that see's very few items carefully matched towards the end goal.

I often get people respond to me with comments like ' yeah but your car is for the strip , I want a track style car....' the fact is that my car is neither strip nor track, it's a streeter and a very comfortable one. Also for all the 'talk' of wanting a circuit based car people go about doing mods that would reduce the cars circuit potential, I have seen a number that have spent $$ on suspension that would handle worse than mine.

The best approach is to try and quantify what you'd like in your car and then do a reality check. After that you choose the components that are the best fit to your design purpose. It's an easy thing that so many get wrong.

[rev210]

on the chasing of bulk horsepowe;

This too comes without matching or a definite 'plan'. Combinations of cams, headwork and turbo selection etc. are often just slapped together and the result is sometimes slower than stock. Something I've seen plenty of with V8's too.

[Jay95R33]

Personal Choice.

It's easy.

Different people have different goals.

One person will build a car to do 12's down the 1/4 mile, while another will build a car to break 200rwkw (on any given dyno), while another person will put stickers on the car and put neons on it cause that's what they want to do.

It doesn't matter if people are infactuated with dyno figures, neons, stickers, or 1/4 mile times, cause that's what pleases them, and when it comes down to it who are we to question what they want to do with their own car and with their own money.

I'm not having a go at anyone here, and I'm sorry if I'm coming across a bit strong but diversity is what makes the world exciting.

J

P.S. - again, not having a go at anyone, but as different dyno's can spit out different figures, so can different drag strips spit out different times due to to condition, surface, preperation etc. So again, the only way to comapare is to do the cars on the same dyno and/or on the same strip.

[Pva_Glue]

Originally posted by summoner

I personally if i choose to modify the cefiro will be taking into consideration mods which no1 ever mentions here..  

http://www.prestigemotorsport.com.au/au/st...sp?StockID=1088

Cefiro with RB26DETT

http://www.prestigemotorsport.com.au/au/st...sp?StockID=1084

I personally like Cefiro and Chaser... and it will be my next car soon... I have to say they are very unique cars. sorry if I deviated from topic a bit

cheers

Joe

[summoner]

i already have a cefiro on the way pva

[puckish]

I think where Imacul8 is coming from is the amount of untested paths for a preformance upgrade path for the Skyline.

With a WRX/Gen3 there are tried and tested methods that are available as packages that will let you acheive your goals with relative ease.

I am yet to see anything on the shelves that will let me bolt together a 12 second Skyline (R33 GTSt) wereas a WRX/Gen3 is availabe from at leats three suppliers in WA alone.

[rev210]

Jay95R33,

I agree about diversity. Unfortunately the 'diverse' can be replaced by 'ignorant' , 'uneducated' and 'missinformed'.

Quite often people have 'no idea' and struggle to acheive what they set out to do because they lack direction.

The rule is:

Aim at nothing and you hit it every time.

[rev210]

Originally posted by puckish

I think where Imacul8 is coming from is the amount of untested paths for a preformance upgrade path for the Skyline.

I am yet to see anything on the shelves that will let me bolt together a 12 second Skyline (R33 GTSt) wereas a WRX/Gen3 is availabe from at leats three suppliers in WA alone.

'Bolt together' some large 255 tyres on the back of my car and you'll run 12's all day. The rest of what i have done leaves the car as 'cushy' to drive as factory, with the same fuel consumption.

If someone gives me another stock gtst , I can get it as quick as mine exactly the same way. Beacuse all I did was apply the same approach I have always had to vehicle modification.

[Nizmo]

**Niz hands Rev210 her GTST**

The thing that comes first into my mind in this debate is Kens Ricer GTR beating the 450hp (? correct me if im wrong it was something along those lines) hooligans GTR in Albany ...... proof that he with most Hp does not always win the race

[rev210]

No problems Niz.

We might need to take the ricer BOV off first?

[puckish]

Yeah it does help if you can also drive....

[puckish]

That doesn't sound right.. It helps if you know how to drive your car faster.

[Guest RedLineGTR]

i think alot of people get all the power in first and then shop around for ther right suspension after some testing...becasue sometimes when you put a certain suspension on it might not be the right one for how the car behaves after the engine power mods. My 2 Cents

[IMACUL8]

So rev...

What would you plan of attact be....

list in order the mods you would prepose...

Daniel

[Nizmo]

Originally posted by rev210

No problems Niz.  

We might need to take the ricer BOV off first?

ummmm ..... my BOV is standard!! :bahaha: