Toe/alignment Questions - Adj. Toe Rods

[resonance]

Hey All. I have a couple of questions.

I have a 180sx and recently put some ISC adjustable toe rods on, as my rear-right had a fair bit of toe-in. Donnellans had fixed it to an extent (without cutting/welding as they said) when I got my new tyres put on about 12 months ago but it still causing the tyre to wear a bit and it kicks to the side a bit when I go over potholes with the left wheel. Anyway I have adjusted the toe of the wheel by eye and corrected the noticeable toe-in. But I want to get it finely tuned (an alignment at a tyre/susp joint).

I just got off the phone from some loud, fast speaking bloke from Pedders in Mitcham. He told me a few wierd things which smelled of fish, one being that I have to get the fronts aligned at the same time or the front/rear will be out of line. Then I said, nah I just put on some adjustable toe rods so I want just the rear toe adjusted, and he said nah we don't do the rears. Wtf? Anyway he said its $110 to do both, and quickly said 'so you want to book your car in tomorrow?'. I said I'm not entirely convinced and he basically said ok and hung up on me. Apart from the pathetic customer service, I felt like he kind of changed when I said that I drive a 180sx and wanted to take me for some kind of idiot, but maybe I'm being a bit sensitive. Is this true, do I need to get the fronts aligned at the same time? Am I railroaded into getting all the wheels aligned at the same time? I'm happy to, I just didn't want to be taken for a ride.

Does anyone know any good reputable suspension/wheel places near Nunawading/Forest Hill as I'm pretty turned off this place now?

Cheers.

[Sydneykid]

Personally I would always check the thrust angle when doing a rear wheel alignment, hence the 4 alignment heads need to be attached. Otherwise you can have the rear wheels parrallel with each other, but not in line with the fronts. So the car would drive down the road sideways, called crabbing by us old guys.

Cheers

Gary

[Gts-t]

How would u check the thrust angle sk?

Also do u rate using laser alignment equipment, alot of guys on here dont and ive been thinking about working out how to use the parrallel strings etc to set it up and see if i can get an improvement.

thanks

[resonance]

SK: Yeah, crabbing was something I also use, and makes sense, my rear end does seem to be off to one side (right wheel hangs out wider than left wheel which is more 'buried'). Is this correctable (spacers)?

[Sydneykid]

How would u check the thrust angle sk?

Also do u rate using laser alignment equipment, alot of guys on here dont and ive been thinking about working out how to use the parrallel strings etc to set it up and see if i can get an improvement.

thanks

The current generation laser aligners with PC do it automatically. Can't carry all that crap with us to the track, so we use the portable stuff, camber gauge and toe gauge.

For string aligning of thrust angle you first find the centre of the front axle and the centre of the rear axle, we do that by dropping a line down from the subframe to chassis mounting points. Once you have established the centres (of each axle), you string a line between them down the centre of the car. Then measure out from that centre string to the centre of each wheel. That tells you if the subframes (and the suspension hanging off them) are aligned to the centre of the chassis.

The next step is to measure the wheelbases, down each side of the car, centre of wheel to centre of wheel. That picks up if it is a "banana" chassis.

If the subframes aren't aligned to the centre or the wheelbases aren't equal , then you need to move the subframes around on their mounting bolts and/or replace the bent components (control arms etc) until they are. Once you have the subframes centered then you can check the toe. We don't do this everytime we do a wheel alignment, only when the car is first built and/or if we suspect that it is bent somewhere.

You can then check and adjust the toe by measuring out from the centre string line to the inside front and rear of each tyre.

Obviously this is not what we do when we are doing a regular wheel alignment, at the track we don't have that sort of time luxury. We adjust the camber using the portable digital camber gauge and the toe is done using a toe gauge that I made up based on a Nascar one I saw when I was in the US. We don't adjust caster at the track.

Cheers

Gary

[Sydneykid]

SK: Yeah, crabbing was something I also use, and makes sense, my rear end does seem to be off to one side (right wheel hangs out wider than left wheel which is more 'buried'). Is this correctable (spacers)?

Something is bent, you need to find out what it is and replace it. That's a simple task of working you way around underneath and measuring all the spacings, comparing left to right. Once you find out what part is bent, then it is simply a mater of replacing it. If it is minor subframe location you can undo the mounting studs about haflway and lever the subframe around, it only moves a little bit, maybe enough to fix the crab. Most times it is a bent control arm though.

Cheers

Gary

[Wogboy]

Is $110 the norm for a front and rear alignment up there? Less than half down here.