Insulating Intercooler Pipes

[bnr#@]

May not make a world of difference but didn’t stop the Bathurst gtr guys from insulating what they could...

Edited April 21, 2008 by bnr#@

[R338OY]

May not make a world of difference but didn't stop the Bathurst gtr guys from insulating what they could...

Yeah i think it'd make a *slight* improvement in an engine bay that can melt arctic glaciers

Edited April 21, 2008 by R338OY

[nuclear_skyline]

Isnt that the point though?

How much money do we throw at our engines and cars for gains? Exhaust maybe gets you 10-20rwkw extra (everything else being standard) and I know i spent over $1200 on my Trust system....

If $20 gets you an extra .5rwkw or even less, i think its worth it....

Edited April 21, 2008 by nuclear_skyline

[Sydneykid]

May not make a world of difference but didn’t stop the Bathurst gtr guys from insulating what they could...

1,000k's of flat out driving where every single horsepower counts is a little different to driving to work in the traffic

Cheers

Gary

[psi]

I was thinking about your example SydneyKid..

i think you made a strong point.. but after thinking more about it.. i think there is more to it.

The pipe before the intercooler gets REALLY stinking hot after a good hit of boost.. y? The hot air may only see a small part of the pipe for 0.2 seconds.. but, as a whole function of the boost episode, that one peice of pipe 'see's' lots of hot air for the 5~10 seconds during that boost hit.

So, I think it stands to some reason that when you are cruising, the pipe that returns the cooler air from the intercooler has a chance to warm up as it travels past the radiator on its way to the engine. The air is in a generally slow flow mode at cruise, under no pressure and has ample time to absorb heat from the pipe as the air is cooler than the pipework..

This is why i think i felt a 'seat of the pants' better throttle responce going from cruise onto boost. I think that is why i cant 'feel' any difference on boost. I think you are spot on with your thoughts when the car is on boost, but on cruise i think it works backwards..

What i do know.. my cheap-ass stubby coolers have been there for ages.. and i aint taking them off!

thoughts?

[sonoramicommando]

hey for the amount of money spent and if you can feel a bit of difference, im all for it.

did you wrap up all the pipings or just the intercooler outlet to throttle?

if compressed air coming out of turbo is hotter than under bonnet air temperature (i don't know if it is, or it is only after certain boost level, but anyway), maybe pre-intercooler piping should be left alone.

[Fixxxer]

Ok, the drive home, highway plus urban driving (different from my way in).

BTW, pre intercooler pipe as mentioned above was not insulated, I didn't consider it necessary as it gets pretty hot, especially on boost, 12psi probably gets the air to 60 or 70 C.

Results:

Definite gain at low engine speeds, part throttle cruise, and building boost.

Full Boost: Doesn't seem any quicker, although I'd think there would have to be a pretty big gain to notice anything here, unless dyno runs were done.

Car felt perkier/more responsive when cruising and tackling hills in 4th and 5th gear, pulled better from first throttle application and low boost loads (just into positive pressure).

All in all, psi is right (and I'm not the first to do the beer cooler idea), and as other guys have said, this best effect is when air speed is slow for obvious reasons (air has more time to heat up).

Fixxxer

[DjeMz]

Save you time - work extra hours at work

Save you money - don't buy stupid shit from clarke rubber or ur local bottle shop

And BUY A MOD THAT ACTUALLY IS WORTH IT!!!

[Sydneykid]

I was thinking about your example SydneyKid..

i think you made a strong point.. but after thinking more about it.. i think there is more to it.

The pipe before the intercooler gets REALLY stinking hot after a good hit of boost.. y? The hot air may only see a small part of the pipe for 0.2 seconds.. but, as a whole function of the boost episode, that one peice of pipe 'see's' lots of hot air for the 5~10 seconds during that boost hit.

So, I think it stands to some reason that when you are cruising, the pipe that returns the cooler air from the intercooler has a chance to warm up as it travels past the radiator on its way to the engine. The air is in a generally slow flow mode at cruise, under no pressure and has ample time to absorb heat from the pipe as the air is cooler than the pipework..

This is why i think i felt a 'seat of the pants' better throttle responce going from cruise onto boost. I think that is why i cant 'feel' any difference on boost. I think you are spot on with your thoughts when the car is on boost, but on cruise i think it works backwards..

What i do know.. my cheap-ass stubby coolers have been there for ages.. and i aint taking them off!

thoughts?

I thought we were talkng about the post intercooler pipework? Now we are talking about the pre-intercooler pipework, which has some rather interesting differences. Insulating that is pretty much guaranteed to do nothing at all because the turbo on boost produces quite hot air flow inside the pipework, after all that's why you need an intercooler. So the temperature difference, inside the pipework compared to outside, is not anywhere near as great. Since the temperature difference isn't as great, there is very little transfer of heat, even at slow airspeeds.

But wait there's more (of course) the intercooler removes some of that difference. An average intercooler is around 70% efficient (at removing termperature), so even if the uninsulated pipework adds a few degrees the intercooler will remove 70% of the difference to ambient anyway.

Back to the post intercooler pipework, I only ever use the 120 degree at the throttle body style of pipework on RB20/25's, so I don't have the extra length behind the radiator. That's a win/win as the lesser amount of air in the pipework improves the response, probably more than taking (at best) a couple of degrees out of the air temperature. That's a true not cost benefit, get the right pipework the first time.

Similarly a heat shield around a pod that lowers the inlet temperature by upwards of 40 degrees is a must. That you can truly feel, compared to a couple of degrees which is more likely to be placebo effect.

Cheers

Gary

[Devils_Advocate21]

Hmm im with SK on this matter. Id go with best bet cool the charge before it enters the turbo will net you a better result. Pod mounted in guard. Boxed off with CAI would be a far better and achievable goal to go for then the insulating. Why the hell not do a test put a couple of temp probes in after IC and before TB then test results. That will be the confirmation of all. esp when you said you feel the difference. but is it a placebo thing. Expecting to feel a difference so you think it doest make a difference??

Very sceptical on this for sure but you know where im coming from. Or how bout looking at Ceramic coating or some heat wrap that some do to manifolds and pipes and housings. at least you underbonnet temps should be down as well..

But well done for trying

Cheers

[sonoramicommando]

the autospeed article has the figures - altho it only measured air temp at throttle body not at i/c outlet, i think the results are there, assuming the autospeed experiment had robust process in terms of ambient and driving conditions (i don't know if it was), there shouldn't be any arguments here.

even better Fixxxer could tell the difference.

placebo effect is definitely a possibility, but then what can you do, do a blind testing?

as for saving time & money and buy a mod that is proven to work - all for it too.

but i don't think Fixxxer would have saved enough time & money to be able to buy any decent mods.

plus i think some people just like tinkering with little things like that rather than just go out and buy stuff.

i, for one, find it more fun.

[Fixxxer]

Tinkering is what I'm good at....

I did the mod cause I had time, it didn't cost practically anything, and there is NO possible way the mod can reduce power, it can only aid. As mentioned in previous posts, I have noticed a definite increase in response, part throttle cruise and building boost scenarios, on roads I travel every day. I'm not removing it.....

Next mod - shield the pod filter. It already has a cold air feed blowing directly at it but this should help too.

Fixxxer