Stock Ecu Tune

[pork hunt drifting]

Ive had a search and cant find a decent answer.

Ive got a s2 rs4s completely stock besides replacing the rear muffler with a straight pipe. ive also mounted the fmic but haven't got it plumbed up yet cause i dont wana stuff the tune up, same with my ebc. the unit is in the car but not wired.

Now can someone tell me if i can tune the car with ebc and fmic without buying an aftermarket computer?

if its not worth it ill just wait untill i can afford a power fc, because i dont want someone telln me yeah we can advance this, do this and f**k my motor.

any help apriciated.

[KiwiRS4T]

The short answer is "no" but you can go ahead and install the fmic and ebc no problem. The fmic will not give you any more power at this point but the ebc can be useful.

You will not at this stage be able to change mixture (air/fuel ratio) or timing (except to ensure the static timing is correctly set at the factory 15deg if you have a timing light).

Your stock ecu will run everything OK as in safely rather than optimally ( will probably run a little rich at the top like they all do).

If you increase the boost a lot and use it that way (wide open throttle up to 7000rpm) you may experience R&R (rich and retard) where in order to protect the engine the ecu will dump extra fuel into the system and pull back the timing.

You can use the ebc to increase the speed of boost build and get a modest increase in boost, but plumb in the fmic first before adjusting boost, and you should have no problems.

At this stage you cannot "tune" the engine but the stock ecu will be OK.

In order to get better fuel economy for normal running and more max power you will need to get a means of tuning the engine.

From best to cheapest:

Vipec/Link tuned and fitted around $2500

PFC (if you can find one for your car) around $1500 to $2000

Nistune fitted to your ecu $800 to $1000

Basic SAFC or DFA and Apexi SITC purchase only $500

(There are dozens more which work for others - Greddy e-manage, HKS F-con, Motec, Dr Drift or Toshi's chips etc)

You cannot safely tune any of the above yourself unless you have minimum a knock detection system such as the K-mon (do not rely on the knock detection ability of the PFC) and a wide band AFR meter such as Tech Edge or Innovate Lm2 so normally that means you need a good tuner with access to a dyno and the above detection equipment. Some tuners with all the right gear can do a good job on the road - the ideal is one who does both (dyno and road).

BTW you don't mention it but you could usefully get a high-flow panel filter for your stock airbox (such as Pipercross PP1128MX)

[BensDR30]

+1

I'm getting my DFA & IEBC tuned @ Graham West next week, but have been running a S2 SMIC for years...

[pork hunt drifting]

cheers for the info. i might go ahead and plumb up the cooler and install the ebc and maybe run a couple more pound just to take up the loss of boost from the fmic, and see if theres an improvment. as long as you think the stock ecu will keep runing things safe.

i was just a bit hesetent of uping the boost cause my mates 33 has been bumped up and as soon as you give it more than half throttle its starts to bang n shit. not my cupa tea.

aoh yeah forgot to mention pod filter is in aswell.

Edited April 16, 2009 by pork hunt drifting

[BensDR30]

Lose the pod filter unless it's shielded - they tend to stuff up the airflow & cause reversion around the AFM too...

[KiwiRS4T]

+1

I'm getting my DFA & IEBC tuned @ Graham West next week, but have been running a S2 SMIC for years...

I will be interested to see your chart - with similar mods and stock turbo (but before I installed my IEBC and SAFC) I got 154AWKW so hopefully you will get better than that.

[too_much_boost]

Robert, In your opinion what advantages do Vipec/Link and PFC have over Nistune? I'm curious to know how people are forming their opinions.

[KiwiRS4T]

Robert, In your opinion what advantages do Vipec/Link and PFC have over Nistune? I'm curious to know how people are forming their opinions.

There is a shortage of facts I will agree which is why I am in contact with the Link factory i Christchurch to get more detailed information. However, broadly I would say that the Link can do everything that Nistune can do ...but better.. and then has extra abilities.

I understand that the Link has more computing power than the PFC and both can more finely tune timing and afrs than the nistune. Both can do away with the need for AFM's by providing purpose constructed maps. Both can be made to control boost. The link has extra inputs and outputs to control say an intercooler spray or poss nos etc. I am by no means an expert on these things and I do get sick of people saying X ecu is the greatest thing since sliced bread without being specific but I am already convinced that the Link has enough advantages to justify the expense. In a year's time I am hoping to know much more!

Having said that i think the Nistune is excellent value for money and would get one if I did not have an S1. A local guy is going to chip a 300Z or A31 ? (cefiro?) ecu for me as I can't afford a Link just now.

[too_much_boost]

You would want to see some serious advantages if you are paying 2.5x the price to get a similar result.

Personally i'm not a fan of map sensed ecu's. Despite people's arguments that an AFM is a restriction, i'd like to see that proven. I'd prefer the complete 'factory behaviour' that a nistune has to offer over the 2rwkw that running a map sensor might give me

[BensDR30]

AFM is considered to be a faster reacting method, but a quality MAP system is just fine. I run a Haltech on my Skyline, and have a MoTec for my Z - both MAP. I've used the Haltech for over 10 years with no problems (aside from one firmware issue in 1997...)

[too_much_boost]

The other areas that AFM is excellent is on altitude and temperature variations. The nature of AFM's is to automatically compensate for the change in air mass.

I also like the fact that you can make a modification on an afm car (eg install aftermarket cams) and it will continue running without fuss. If you do something like that on a map sensed car, you will be lucky to be able to get it to idle without a full retune

[pork hunt drifting]

went to install ebc today thought ild test it before plumbing it right up, and came across problem.

i got power to handunit in car no probs but as i switch from high boost to low and so forth the solanoid doesnt click. but if you test it straight onto 12v it clicks over no probs. any ideas?

ive gone over wiring few time and seems ok.

also in the diagram it shows to hook up wires to ecu for power earth air flow etc but have been told not to bother? just run power and ground to hand unit.

if anyone local can maybee give me a hand to sort this out by comparing cars or help online either way it would be gangster.

cheers ken

[BigDirtyJase]

What EBC do you have?

[pork hunt drifting]

just an early model hybrid not digital or nothin just one button n two dials

[kjb_r33]

went to install ebc today thought ild test it before plumbing it right up, and came across problem.

i got power to handunit in car no probs but as i switch from high boost to low and so forth the solanoid doesnt click. but if you test it straight onto 12v it clicks over no probs. any ideas?

ive gone over wiring few time and seems ok.

also in the diagram it shows to hook up wires to ecu for power earth air flow etc but have been told not to bother? just run power and ground to hand unit.

if anyone local can maybee give me a hand to sort this out by comparing cars or help online either way it would be gangster.

cheers ken

Off hand id say that the soleniod would pulse when the set boost pressure is reached, not before.

[pork hunt drifting]

i was thinkn that, just didnt want to set it all up and run 50pound i might give it a go in a bit or tomoz.

its just weird that the hand unit doest send anypower to the solanoid when u switch it, but hey im still learning lots about this turbo stuff.

Edited April 17, 2009 by pork hunt drifting

[pork hunt drifting]

ok its plumbed and wired took it round the block and it seems to running the same if not less boost as normal.

tried dailing it up bit by bit but too scared cause im not a 100% sure its rite, pluss the fmic isnt plumbed.

[_Ryan_]

keep boost too .70bar/10psi on a standard turbo.

Being a series 2 a Nistune is an option, anywhere from 500-1000 fitted and tuned is reasonable.

They allow full control of the factory ECU, and unless you pull it apart, is undetectable

I personally would jump at this option if a local reputable tuner offers this option. You retain the factory protection maps, which can be tweaked, but running hot/cold etc can change the map, cold start is as factory etc.

Where is "porties south"? Best to put in an easily recognized location for people to recommend a tuner.

Tell them you want the map safe/reliable, and hopefully it wont go bang

If on the standard ECU you are upping the boost and it is running like a pig, turn down the boost 1PSI at a time until the ECU return to normal mapping, Search R & R or "Rich and Retard" for more info.

Oh, and don't bother with a "Pipercross" Panel, SK used to recommend them as he sold them(through Jamex), but they are an oiled panel and therefore not recommended for AFM equipped cars, I use an Apex'i panel, but a 3a or any cheapy dry element panel filter is fine. K&N are also oilled FYI

Edited April 17, 2009 by Ryan1600

[pork hunt drifting]

solaniod aint budging still running stock or less than stock boost on both settings, ill look at wiring the ebc into the ecu and see if that makes it work.

trying to get hold of previous owner to see if he remembers how he had it wired.

[wolverine]

i have used K&N filters for over 9 years on my R33 (and also on the S2 Stagea) and i have never had an AFM issue due to the filter.

a spray of electrical contact cleaner on the element once a year is pretty easy if you are worried about oil affecting the element. just a part of maintenance as far as i am concerned.