Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

Hay guys why do the Formula one teams cool the fuel down before it goes into the cars ?

And i was reading that fuel pump is cooled by the fuel passing throught it so would it warm up the fuel ?

Wont this do the opposite to what the formula 1 teams try to do i assume that they cool the fuel down because it makes more power some how which you guys will hopefully

be able to help me with.

The fuel pump warms the fuel up so it makes all the cars less efficent if the fuel is warmer ?

I assume that it makes the the air intake temps lower as it is sprayed into the piston is that what cold fuel dose ?

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/272919-y-cold-fuel-f1/
Share on other sites

It could be a safety thing - colder fuel is less volatile, so not as much vapour around to ignite on hot exhausts / brakes / etc.

But colder fuel is denser, so they can fit a few extra litres in the tank.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/272919-y-cold-fuel-f1/#findComment-4633351
Share on other sites

But colder fuel is denser, so they can fit a few extra litres in the tank.

yep yep

fuel at a colder temp is smaller in volume than at lets say ambient or warm

therefore they can chuck in more fuel in a standard specified tank.

also a controlled temperature allows them to calculate fuel stops and reduce a variable to make calcs on future stops more accurate.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/272919-y-cold-fuel-f1/#findComment-4633594
Share on other sites

  • 5 weeks later...

I would add that unused fuel eg; when the throttle is closed, is returned to the tank. Which in our case means the fuel has been around the hot engine bay and picked up heat on its travels. When the car has a huge fueling system to cope with its demands at full power, the fuel can do several laps of the engine bay just idling at a set of traffic lights. This is why Skylines standard have ECU controlled voltages to the fuel pump, when the engine demands are low the ECU limits the voltage eg; 9 volts instead of 12 volts, which means the pump pumps less fuel.

This is particularly important for E85 users as ethanol has a lower vaporisation temperature than petrol. This is what causes the more frequent stalling and acceleration hesitation during and after pit stops for the V8Supercars.

Cheers

Gary

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/272919-y-cold-fuel-f1/#findComment-4702140
Share on other sites

Hay guys why do the Formula one teams cool the fuel down before it goes into the cars ?

There are a number of reasons

1. Cold fuel is more dense.

2. Hot fuel will vaporize.

3. The cars dump a massive amount of heat into everything.

Historically cooling the fuel was at its most important when the cars were limited to 150 litres for a grandprix. This was in 1988 for the turbo cars from memory. The extra few % of fuel gained was invaluable.

Presently you are only allowed to cool the fuel so many degrees below ambient. This is what BMW got in trouble about at the Brazillian GP a couple of years ago.

And i was reading that fuel pump is cooled by the fuel passing throught it so would it warm up the fuel ?

All pumps are affected by the temperatures of the fluid passing through them. All pumps heat up the fluid they are pumping - the most pronounced example of that being your turbo.

As an aside if you think of the 20000+rpm the F1 motors used to run at then you can get an idea of the tiny period of time the injector has available to deliver fuel to the motor. To help in this regard the pressures run in the fueling system in the F1 cars are, by comparisiion to road cars, massive.

Wont this do the opposite to what the formula 1 teams try to do i assume that they cool the fuel down because it makes more power some how

Yes but there is nothing much you can do about it other than increase the efficiency of the fuel pump or lower the rail pressure.

The fuel pump warms the fuel up so it makes all the cars less efficent if the fuel is warmer ?

I assume that it makes the the air intake temps lower as it is sprayed into the piston is that what cold fuel dose ?

Broadly - the hotter the fuel the more prone you are to having pumping issues & vapourisation issues. Also a cooling inlet temp can allow more ignition advance giving more powah.

Some fuels have a marked cooling effect on the inlet system. Alchohol based fuels particularly. The old turbocharged indy cars did not need to run intercoolers simply because of the fuel they used.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/272919-y-cold-fuel-f1/#findComment-4702203
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • Hi, SteveL Thank you very much for your reply, you seem to be the only person on the net who has come up with a definitive answer for which I am grateful. The "Leak" was more by way of wet bubbles when the pedal was depressed hard by a buddy while trying to gey a decent pedal when bleeding the system having fitted the rebuilt BM50 back in the car, which now makes perfect sense. A bit of a shame having just rebuilt my BM50, I did not touch the proportioning valve side of things, the BM50 was leaking from the primary piston seal and fluid was running down the the Brake booster hence the need to rebuild, I had never noticed any fluid leaking from that hole previously it only started when I refitted it to the car. The brake lines in the photo are "Kunifer" which is a Copper/Nickel alloy brake pipe, but are only the ones I use to bench bleed Master cylinders, they are perfectly legal to use on vehicles here in the UK, however the lines on the car are PVF coated steel. Thanks again for clearing this up for me, a purchase of a new BMC appears to be on the cards, I have been looking at various options in case my BM50 was not repairable and have looked at the HFM BM57 which I understand is manufactured in Australia.  
    • Well the install is officially done. Filled with fluid and bled it today, but didn't get a chance to take it on a test drive. I'll throw some final pics of the lines and whatnot but you can definitely install a DMAX rack in an R33 with pretty minor mods. I think the only other thing I had to do that isn't documented here is grind a bit of the larger banjo fitting to get it to clear since the banjos are grouped much tighter on the DMAX rack. Also the dust boots from a R33 do not fit either fyi, so if you end up doing this install for whatever reason you'll need to grab those too. One caveat with buying the S15 dust boots however is that the clamps are too small to fit on the R33 inner tie rod since they're much thicker so keep the old clamps around. The boots also twist a bit when adjusting toe but it's not a big deal. No issues or leaks so far, steering feels good and it looks like there's a bit more lock now than I had before. Getting an alignment on Saturday so I'll see how it feels then but seems like it'll be good to go       
    • I don't get in here much anymore but I can help you with this.   The hole is a vent (air relief) for the brake proportioning valve, which is built into the master cylinder.    The bad news is that if brake fluid is leaking from that hole then it's getting past the proportioning valve seals.   The really bad news is that no spare parts are available for the proportioning valve either from Nissan or after market.     It's a bit of a PITA getting the proportioning valve out of the master cylinder body anyway but, fortunately, leaks from that area are rare in my experience. BTW, if those are copper (as such) brake lines you should get rid of them.    Bundy (steel) tube is a far better choice (and legal  in Australia - if that's where you are).
×
×
  • Create New...