Full Sound System - Fusion Or Pioneer

[Aidan]

G'day Guys, I'm about to do up my R33 with a new sound system. The head unit i'm getting is the Pioneer AVIC-HD3 v2. I may want to put some subs in the boot at some stage, but for now i'm looking at some 6.5" Splits for the front and some 6x9's for the rear. Might change the rears to regular 6/6.5 Inch 2 ways if people suggest stearing clear of the 6x9's. Any advice would be great.

I'm thinking about going a Fusion setup

Fusion PP-CM650 6.5" Front Splits

Fusion PP-FR6920 6x9" Rear

or Pioneer

Pioneer TS-D1720C 6.5" Splits

Pioneer TS-D6902R 6x9" 2 Way rears

Not entirely sure about amps. Any advice would be much appreciated. As usual I'm looking for the cheapest solution and the best quality. Price wise. I'd like to keep the speakers below 600 for the lot. The amp/amps no more than 400.

If there is another brand I should be looking at for these price range. Let me know of whats good.

Cheers

Aidan

[Joe Bellissimo]

If you are going to go with a subwoofer later one you are probably better off using 6.5" coax speakers in the back.

For the best quality and best prices I would recommend looking at the following brands:

Crecendo

http://www.ozbliss.com/pages/products/opus3.html

(Its a very deep set so I'm not sure if they would fit in the R33)

SPL Dynamics

http://www.spldynamics.fi/

CDT Audio

http://www.cdtaudio.com/

AD Audio

http://www.xmplar.com.au/ad-speakers.shtml

You can get good quality sets of fronts and rears for around $600 from any of those brands. I hope that gives you a little more to look at.

[-Stokesy-]

If you want a good system i'd leave the rears and put all your money into a good set of front speaker. $600 would get you a fairly good set new or a very good set second hand.

What kind of music do you listen to?

Here is an example of some good second hand equipment

Speakers

Boston pro60 ($600) - FHRX

Amp

jl Audio 300/4 http://www.mobileelectronics.com.au/forums...howtopic=550081

[G2GLOL]

as said above, if you're going to run a sub at a later stage; ditch the sik by nines because they'll be useless.

A well installed pair of front splits will dominate 6x9's in the area of midbass anyway

I wouldn't limit myself to those brands either, there is sooo much out there. Set a budget and go demo as many as you can!

[Aidan]

Thanks guys. I Listen to a very wide variety of music. From trance to Rock, then RnB and even Classic. So I guess I'm after really good alrounders. What sort of advice can you give me regarding the amps? Do I want monoblock(whatever that means) 2 channels/4 channels? I really have no idea on this. I'm gunna go demo some speakers during the week.

Cheers

[Joe Bellissimo]

With that kind of taste your probably going to fall in love with a $1000 set

Rock is hard because you need great midbass and a high level of midrange accuracy. Classical is hard because you need the speaker to have the correct "tonality".

Your probably best off with a 4 channel amplifier. It has enough channels to amplify the fronts and the rears. Or you can power the fronts and a subwoofer. Or you can use it as a 2 channel to double the power to use with a very powerful set of splits in the front.

[__PhaseShiftDown]

How about a nice 5 channel unit like the JBL GTO5355? Or a Kicker 5 ch? It'll be easier to install with less wiring.

http://www.e-hifi.com.au/jblcar/GrandTouri...es/gto5355.aspx

I have an older 6ch JBL amp and it is works very nicely with my kenwood dnx7320, alpine type R splits front, co-ax rear and a kicker shallow mount sub.

[steveo_r33]

I used Focal K2's 6.5in Spilts in the front and then 6inch 2 way Focals in the rear parcel shelf. Sub setup in the boot. IMO Focal is the way to go. xD Not cheap but top sound.

[Kujotk]

yup money in the front speakers..... how often are you driving from the back seat????

suffer without the bass for a while untill you can put in a decent sub/subs...

Ive gone with MTX, yes there expensive but when i sit in someone who has a whole pioneer system it irritates me when you turn it up loud and sony from personal experience is rubish....

Still i like the pioneer head units

[Aidan]

Hey guys. So I've revised my current car upgrades and have devoted more money to the audio. ATM im thinking of going for a full blown Focal System, bar the head Unit ofcourse. 165KR 6.5 Splits for the front, 165KRC 6.5" Coaxial for the rear, and a SOLID 4 Channel Amp. Later on I'll get one of there subs and a monoblock amp to suite. Also, as per my previous statement about music taste, I'd say I listen to 50% Rock, 20% RnB and Trance and 10% Classical. So I guess you could say I'll mostly be listening to rock. Would the chosen focals above be a good choice?

[frx026]

So, your original question was Fusion or Pioneer.

Well, I have been involved with both companies at different levels over the last few years.

Fusion - Powerplant - all made in china - varying degrees of quality control depending who is running the production line - poor aftersales support - new powerplant does not come close to old powerplant in performance.

Pioneer - make good headunits - make ok entry level equipment - but please dont build an entire system from it - its not that nice..

In the show/demo cars i have built I use a simple rule - JAP brand headunit - Pioneer/Kenwood etc.. AMERICAN Brand Amps, Subs, Speakers - MTX, KICKER

The JAPS are great at making head units with lots of gizmos, buttons, lights and sound processors, but their amps generally lack power, their speakers lack tone and their subs lack bass.

The AMERICANS on the other hand arent that bright and are used to big things, big hats, guns and cars. So, they make amp, subs, speakers with big power. And generally the better american brands actually sound ok to.

SO, you get your jap gizmo to drive american power. Or at least that's what i have done for 12 years and never gone wrong.

With your car - Forget 6x9's in the back. Not only will you cut alot of metal out that you might need one day, but once you put in some subs you simply wont hear them. If your passengers ever whinge, just slow down to 60 and throw them out of the car.

The guys here are correct - spend your money on a good set of front splits. Make sure that whatever sort you buy you have an amp that has more power than it needs to run them. SO, if you buy speakers that are 50WRMS, get an amp that pushes 75WRMS per channel. That way your amp is not running at max gain all the time and you will avoid harmonic distortion and heat distortion thru your amp. Same rule for Subs.

As for 5 channels. The last car I worked on with 5 channel amps had two of them in it. Yep. 10 channels in total. One sub each, then a combination of front, internal rear and boot rear speakrs of the other channels. If you load a 5 channel amp up it will run very hot. We ended up having to put cooling fans under the amps to keep them from shutting down.

The best way with amps is to get one amp for front and rears, and another for subs. Two power supplies that run independant. You wont notice thermal distortion as much and if using the right guage cables they shouldnt shut down on you.

my 2c.

[-Stokesy-]

Hey guys. So I've revised my current car upgrades and have devoted more money to the audio. ATM im thinking of going for a full blown Focal System, bar the head Unit ofcourse. 165KR 6.5 Splits for the front, 165KRC 6.5" Coaxial for the rear, and a SOLID 4 Channel Amp. Later on I'll get one of there subs and a monoblock amp to suite. Also, as per my previous statement about music taste, I'd say I listen to 50% Rock, 20% RnB and Trance and 10% Classical. So I guess you could say I'll mostly be listening to rock. Would the chosen focals above be a good choice?

Don't spend that much on rears!!

Plus if you save on the rears you can get the 165KRX2.. The focal solid amps are good, but you may want to find an amp with a bit more grunt as the new focals are 2ohm and therefor you can't bridge the channels. I've got a Boston amp running my K2P's and it gives them 175WRMS a channel, if i had the 2Ohm versions i would be getting 300WRMS a side!!!

[Kujotk]

So, your original question was Fusion or Pioneer.

Well, I have been involved with both companies at different levels over the last few years.

Fusion - Powerplant - all made in china - varying degrees of quality control depending who is running the production line - poor aftersales support - new powerplant does not come close to old powerplant in performance.

Pioneer - make good headunits - make ok entry level equipment - but please dont build an entire system from it - its not that nice..

In the show/demo cars i have built I use a simple rule - JAP brand headunit - Pioneer/Kenwood etc.. AMERICAN Brand Amps, Subs, Speakers - MTX, KICKER

The JAPS are great at making head units with lots of gizmos, buttons, lights and sound processors, but their amps generally lack power, their speakers lack tone and their subs lack bass.

The AMERICANS on the other hand arent that bright and are used to big things, big hats, guns and cars. So, they make amp, subs, speakers with big power. And generally the better american brands actually sound ok to.

SO, you get your jap gizmo to drive american power. Or at least that's what i have done for 12 years and never gone wrong.

With your car - Forget 6x9's in the back. Not only will you cut alot of metal out that you might need one day, but once you put in some subs you simply wont hear them. If your passengers ever whinge, just slow down to 60 and throw them out of the car.

The guys here are correct - spend your money on a good set of front splits. Make sure that whatever sort you buy you have an amp that has more power than it needs to run them. SO, if you buy speakers that are 50WRMS, get an amp that pushes 75WRMS per channel. That way your amp is not running at max gain all the time and you will avoid harmonic distortion and heat distortion thru your amp. Same rule for Subs.

As for 5 channels. The last car I worked on with 5 channel amps had two of them in it. Yep. 10 channels in total. One sub each, then a combination of front, internal rear and boot rear speakrs of the other channels. If you load a 5 channel amp up it will run very hot. We ended up having to put cooling fans under the amps to keep them from shutting down.

The best way with amps is to get one amp for front and rears, and another for subs. Two power supplies that run independant. You wont notice thermal distortion as much and if using the right guage cables they shouldnt shut down on you.

my 2c.

yay you confirmed what ive done to my car and i did it because i sat down and thought of it logically.... big power amp/speakers/subs, and a japanese headunit coz they look pretty and the pioneer list of sound processors was the longest (eg. the things that say mosfet, super tuner III, eeq bla bla bla lol)

[fatmike]

go by your ears mate... if it sounds okay to you, stick with it. my cousin spend $5k, sounds a bit betta than my stereo but for the extra $4k he spent, i'll stick with my cheaper set-up.

chek out the Response amps from Jaycar Audio... good value for money, and if your budgeting their speakers arent too bad.

however as the audio-pro's said previously, some decent money will buy you decent gear. the only reason i didnt spend lots was because i didnt have lots to spend... 'technically' there are many reasons to say you should spend lots on a car audio system if upgrading, and they are correct, but it all comes down to $$$ and your knowledge of product.

E.G. this is off the Jaycar website...

*4 x 100WRMS Full Range Car Amplifier Specifications:

• Power / channel @ 4ohm 14.4V: 100WRMS x 4

• Power / channel @ 2ohm 14.4V: 150WRMS x 4

• Power / bridged @ 4ohm 14.4V: 300WRMS x 2

• S/N ratio: >90dB

• Input sensitivity: 200mV to 5V

• Low pass filter: 50 - 500Hz @ 12dB/octave

• High pass filter: 50 - 500Hz @ 12dB/octave

• Dimensions: 4300(L) x 170(W) x 50mm(D)mm

RRP: $224:50

*Component Car Speakers with Ribbon Tweeters Specifications:

• Woofer/mid: 6.5" PMI/Kevlar® composite cone, diecast basket

• Frequency response: 70Hz - 4kHz

• Tweeter: Ribbon type with neodymium magnet

• Frequency response: 3kHz - 40kHz

• Crossover: 12dB/octave

• Crossover size: 130(L) x 85(W) x 38(H)mm

• Dimensions: A - 166, B - 156, C - 143, D - 65mm

RRP: $149.50 (web site currently advertises $114.50)

hope i didnt waste too much time.

rock out

[Aidan]

Thanks for the input guys. I l've listened to some speakers through the week and I've recently come across a super deal. Should have my fronts sorted sometime tomorrow if all goes well. Now its time to decide on my rears.

@Mike

Went to see the Jaycar ones on Thursday night. Sounded ok, but I'm after something to really blow me away with quality. This "super deal" i've found should do just that at a very marginal price. Thanks for the recommendation though.

CHeers

[Mandingo]

Ill throw another idea up for ya mate hertz HSK165s can be had pretty cheap and sound great. focals would be my pick but

[Aidan]

Hey guys, heres what I've got so far...

JL Audio ZR650CSI - Killer ebay deal

Alpine PDX-4.150 - Another killer ebay deal

With the rears, I was thinking about chucking in some bostons, maybe just regular Boston Pro60's and keep them as coaxials or some Focals. Either that, or I'm thinking of hunting down some JL Audio C5-650X's. I know the rears wont be heard that much, but I just want a top notch system all round.

Is it bad to cross breed products?

I'm now also looking into wiring...Not too sure what to use. I know the amp can use up to 8 gauge. But I thought I'd see what everyone else thinks.

So just to Reiterate, I'm now looking at Rear 6-6.5" Coaxials and some good quality wire. Looking to keep the speakers below 600.

Thanks for all the advice guys.