Manifold Design and Turbine Housing - expensive lesson learnt

[Steve]

I dont think it would be totally unreasonable, but you will have to do a bit of work to get it there - port, match the manifold, cams, etc - there are so many variables. If you are thinking of getting the 3037 new, I would suggest buying it in kit form, as you will save alot of money. The kits come complete with all the bits you need to fit them (well 99%).

By comparison, I picked up my turbo cheap (new), my wastegate cheap (second hand), and with all the other bits, manifolds, gaskets dump etc, I could have just bought a new HKS full kit for the same price and saved myself months of stuffing around, plus I would have had a package of parts designed to work together.

[driftaR32]

I dont think it would be totally unreasonable, but you will have to do a bit of work to get it there - port, match the manifold, cams, etc - there are so many variables.  If you are thinking of getting the 3037 new, I would suggest buying it in kit form, as you will save alot of money.  The kits come complete with all the bits you need to fit them (well 99%).

By comparison, I picked up my turbo cheap (new), my wastegate cheap (second hand), and with all the other bits, manifolds, gaskets dump etc, I could have just bought a new HKS full kit for the same price and saved myself months of stuffing around, plus I would have had a package of parts designed to work together.

yeh ill have a hks style top mount manifold

and i have all the required lines etc left over from a hks 2535

ill invest in some cam gears, might help us move the powerband around a bit

also whats the go with the dump pipe on these turbos

they look to have a different design at the rear compared to a normal t3 style

Regards

Dylan

[driftaR32]

yeh ill have a hks style top mount manifold

and i have all the required lines etc left over from a hks 2535

ill invest in some cam gears, might help us move the powerband around a bit

also whats the go with the dump pipe on these turbos

they look to have a different design at the rear compared to a normal t3 style

Regards

Dylan

btw the turbo im after is the new internal wastegate style if that makes a difference

[Cubes]

hey all

im coming in a little late i now, for that im sorry

im looking to purchase and install a new HKS 3037PRO s with internal gate and .87 rear end

im really hoping for gull booost by around 4000-4500 rpm on an rb20det

other modifications will be power fc, gtr injectors, and obvious support systems (fmic exhuast etc)

i just wanna know...am i dreaming??

thanks in advance

I would use the .69 exhaust a/r with the rb20.

.87 is quite large when you consider the vg30bb turbo is a .81 and makes 1bar by 4000rpm.

Remember it is a 480hp turbo so you will definately have to fiddle with cams etc to get boost in where you want it. Just bolting the turbo on I think it would be on the opposite side of 5500rpm for 1bar+.

Any 1 had any experience with 500hp turbo's that make a genuine 300rwkw on the RB20's?

[Roy]

 

Any 1 had any experience with 500hp turbo's that make a genuine 300rwkw on the RB20's?

Someone lend me a Trust TD06-25G or T67-25G (DJ_L3ThAL ) and im willing to give it a go on my grenade. I saw a T67 turbo off a CA18 i thought about it, but then i realised i havent even got my TD06-20G setup working 100% yet :Oops: .

[Sydneykid]

He-he, hello again Sydneykid.

I am sure the cams and all the pulleys are manufactured extremely accurately, so the stock cam timing SHOULD be spot on, but it never is.

The problem is the cam belt.

There will always be some permanent stretch in an old belt, and even a new belt is going to stretch a bit as you tension up the adjuster. Now the adjuster is on the slack side, so as you take up a bit of extra belt length on the slack side, this will retard both cams with respect to the crank. And it does not take much stretch to shift the timing by rather a lot.

Think about it. One full turn of the cam is 720 Crankshaft degrees, and the cam pulley has 48 teeth. That is 15 crank degrees per tooth.  The belt pitch is 8mm per tooth.

There is a fairly long length of belt between the crank and the exhaust cam (not sure exactly how much) and if it stretches only 4mm, that would retard both cams by a huge 7.5 degrees.  

So you might have a situation where you have four different dead stock engines, but the individual cam timings all over the place by a few degrees because of different belt ages, different non Nissan belts being fitted, and different belt tension settings. And what about head gasket thickness..... ?

So everyone retards their exhaust cam by exactly four degrees. Two guys get a power increase ) one guy says it makes no difference :0/  and the fourth guy gets a slight power drop (   I wonder why ?

And why do Nissan bother to make the cam position sensor adjustable if the cam position can NEVER vary away from stock?  

I prefer to set my cams up using a degree wheel and check the exact opening and closing points with a dial indicator on the cam followers. Adjustable cam pulleys allow you to always put it back to what it was when you did that really fantastic dyno run. If you do not do this, in reality you have no clue where those cams actually are, and after a major rebuild there is no chance it will go back together exactly the same.

I just believe there is no substitute for measuring and checking things, and if anything is going to change, that very hard working rubber timing belt should be treated with the greatest suspicion.  

If you really heave down on the belt tension adjustment, you can actually see both cams move slightly !......... Try it and see.

While I am sure YOU do all this, a lot of guys just fit the variable pulleys, and back off the exxhaust cam from the marked line, not bothering to actually measure anything. All they really care about is the dyno figure.

Sorry, I still don’t understand why you would bother spending all that time setting up the camshafts perfectly to the standard timing (the “old “way) and then the first thing you do is stuff it up by changing it on the dyno. I see nothing wrong in moving the camshaft timing around to get the power curve you want, be it a higher max power or a better power curve for your purposes. I really don’t care what the timing was BEFORE I started, I only care where it is AFTER I tune it. I mark that with a timing light on the crank pulley and record it on the dyno sheet. This works by maintaining the relationship between the CAS and the camshaft pulley.

As for duplicating it after a rebuild or when the belt stretches, that’s too easy. I just reset the camshaft timing with the timing light by adjusting the camshaft pulleys (not by changing the relationship between the CAS and the pulley). There is so little cambelt length between the inlet and exhaust cams, the stretch there is truly miniscule. If I want to be precise, I mark the position of the camshafts themselves with a pin punch when the crank pulley is at TDC. So I don’t really give a shoot about cylinder head machining or belt stretch.

By doing it this I can put the camshaft timing back exactly where I tuned it to be, easily and quickly. Plus I can check it in the car with the timing light. If I use the “old” method, I have to start all over again, set up the standard timing, then stick it on the dyno and tune it. That seems like a big waste of time and money to me.

What I hope to achieve with this post is to educate people so that some may actually do it, so I see no reason in teaching them the “old” way. The ones that want to learn, might as well learn the “new” way.

[driftaR32]

i may try gt30 then instead with a .64 rear