Replace Current Car With...

[No Crust Racing]

lol curse Nissan for making us fall in love with a car that's maybe 10% more capable but %30 more expensive in every way? lol

[emtea]

Indeed... 

I guess the big thing for me is to track a GT-R, I would want to have enough money sitting in the bank to replace the motor at anytime... And as I'm struggling to find the money to rebuild my current motor, I can't see myself finding an even bigger pile of cash that allows me to rebuild another motor if the worst were to happen at the track lol.

[No Crust Racing]

I might be talking crazy, but do people not rebuild their own engines with 26's, would keep the labour cost down and in the end it's just another 4 stroke engine. s there something special to know regarding tolerances or oil control etc?

[emtea]

I'm actually really keen to try the rebuild myself, however I do get scared of stuffing it up. The last engine I had involvement with rebuilding was dad's A-series motor from his MG, and that was 20 years ago

Loads of information about oil control and the like on here... 

[Belsil80]

what a read. Dan, seems every valid point has been covered. The biggest factors with the GTR is cost and effort. You will use more brakes, tyres and fuel, and if you are trying to be relatively competitive then things like a set of AO50s are going to be at least $550 a corner. Add in a big set of brakes, suspension and 10k worth of motor and you will enter the world of the average track GTR in Vic.

s14 with wheels, tyres, susp, turbo, injectors, pfc, tune, diff, seat, ideally caged, spaced calipers and larger rotors with good pads and you will be up there in a heart beat. pending on budget you could get away with that gear for 15k if you tried...

plus, a nicely done S14 couldnt be much worse than a 33GTR for a weekender... sure they sound way less cool but it would still be a great car to get around in.

[No Crust Racing]

OK let's do some rough comparisons.

What's an S14 weigh? 1250? 1300? and a GT-R is 1500-1550? So an S14 at 1250 with 230rwkw (I choose this power because I'm under the impression that's about the safe limit of a stock engine?) works out to be about 5.4Kg per kW. A GT-R with about 300rwkw (again guessing safe stock limit?) comes out to be about 5.16Kg per kW

To acheive this both would need turbo upgrades, computer, intake and exhaust upgrade. I'm not 100% sure if both require fuel upgrades to get these figures. You would spend more on the GT-R to make that power but you'd have a better power to weigth ratio at that point, so more money spent but better power/weight.. make sense I guess. If the engines are rebuilt all this goes out the windo of course but neither are overly cheap to rebuild when going forged internals etc.

Both will need suspension which when looking at decent quality suspension doesn't seem to vary much given the car, if we said the GT-R shocks were more expensive by a little bit due to heavier car then that's not that surprising.

An S14 with slotted rotors and good pads and fluid should pull up pretty well, I have the same setup on my car and it out brakes semi slicks easily so does it need more braking power than that? Likewise my GT-R had upgraded rotors, pads and fluid and it seemd to have enough brakes for sprintsl, maybe it's because my home track is Winton which is not overly fast and I'm only doing sprints 6-8laps at a time? I'd have thought the standard Brembo's were up to the task but I must be wrong based on the consensus that everyone has about needing huge brakes on a GT-R.

Then there's tyres, I don't think this one is avoidable, the GT-R seems to need 265 semi's to keep it on the black stuff whereas the S chassis cars seem quite content on 235's, a noteable cost difference. If buying new, but how much of a cost difference if being able to source them second hand I wonder.

For all of it's extra expense in the above, the GT-R ends up with a higher outlay and ongoing costs, I can't even guess how much more fuel it would use, but at the power point listed the performance should be better in a GT-R, on paper at least all things considered.

In my head it looks like you spend more and you go faster but from what everyone else is saying, that's just not the case. So I've either ballsed up the figures, over estimated the power potential of the engines, underestimated cost differences, or am just plain biased?

[phunky_monkey]

You have to remember that power to weight is affecting straight line perfomance, the weight of the GT-R still counts against it in the corners, under brakes, in direction changes etc.

As for power from the S14, I'd run at a safe 210-220rwkw's if I didn't want to open the engine. I used to run mine at around 200-210 or so on track for safety's sake and it held up perfectly. With E85 you could happily go to 230 or above for little expense. You'll need computer, injectors and pump for this power, and a turbo for anything above the 210 mark, depending on who's dyno you're on as well as the condition of the engine and turbo etc

[No Crust Racing]

Yeah I follow that Dane but while it's heavier it also wears wider rubber and has bigger brakes so yes those items cost more but the performance shoudl be roughly equal when taking the weight into consideration. Powerwise though you should end up with a better power to weight on an unopened engine?

So in my head I have it as the GT-R costs more but should go faster, lap times wise? No?

[phunky_monkey]

Up to a certain point, yes. More money and some nice driving = faster times But it all depends how far you want to take it. I think an unopened, stock turbo-ed S14 can be quicker than an equivalent GT-R, if you consider the same engine longevity and sensible power outputs to go along with it.

So as we've all agreed on, the GT-R can be super quick, but you've gotta pay to play!

[badhairdave]

I started doing the maths and when it was sitting around 75% extra cost for an equivalent gtr based on your 300 and 230kw figures (before i even looked at support systems) it became clear.

bias.

[No Crust Racing]

lol damn you dave *fist shake*

Give us a run down on your pricing, 75% seems a bit much 0_0 Bare in mind that like most I do a bit of my own work and am not against sourcing 2nd hand bargains.

[phunky_monkey]

Dan, just get a GT-R mate! You won;t be happy unless you do.

At the end of the day if it was all about going mega quick we'd all have Super Karts! It's about enjoying what you drive unless competition is your number one focus, which doesn't seem to be the case.

[badhairdave]

lol damn you dave *fist shake*

Give us a run down on your pricing, 75% seems a bit much 0_0 Bare in mind that like most I do a bit of my own work and am not against sourcing 2nd hand bargains.

If it makes you feel any better i hadn't even factored in labour....

Just basic stuff really

1 gt28 sized turbo vs 2 on the gtr so (new price) 1400 vs 2800

1 dump pipe vs 2 dump pipes if you want to go there.

4 injectors ball park 500 for side feed nismos vs around 600 for 6 top feeds

front camber arms for gtr ontop of coilover price vs all s chassis coilovers having it in the front already $300ish

Thats where i gave up

but on the support systems, $120 walbro vs $220 044, $200 bolt on sump vs i don't want to know for a gtr weld on, cheapy oil cooler vs something decent (Oil cooler on my 285rwkw sr is worth a grand, i wouldn't even consider something less at this power), radiator upgrades etc etc.

I'm sure people could pick holes in that list, it was just a quick off the top of my head one. The balance of the suspension stuff should be the same, brake pad costs should be roughly equivalent etc etc

[No Crust Racing]

Well... I.... but.... maybe.... Gah I hate you

Disco for SR is about 900 new, I thought N1's made 300awkw (maybe that's stretching them) and didn't cost almost 3k new? I expect more $$ but expect more power in the end too?

Are GT-R's out of injector head room at that power?

Dane: In reality, the track potential and competition capability would come before streetability as much as I hate knowing that points to the S-Chassis as the better choice =\

So long as I can afford it, the GT-R is fine though right?? right!??!?!

Where's the scotsman and Baron when you need them.

[phunky_monkey]

Sure is

Buy this: http://my105.com/classified.asp?id=16103

[badhairdave]

If i wanted something to drive around in i'd want a skyline too if it makes you feel any better.

stock injectors will be well and truly out of head room at 300. Not saying you can't make 300 with stockers, just that they are at their limit and i'd be looking at 600ish cc minimum

Shit, turbos have gotten cheap...i thought 13-1400 was a good price

[No Crust Racing]

Yeah I dunno about N1's but I do know personally that discos can be had for that money.

The missus said "we" should go GT-R so long as she can drive it too - sounds like my costs just got halved lol. I said no worries but she has to agree to being my nav if we get into hillclimbs/tarmac rally. She loves the idea - Jackpot.

[No Crust Racing]

Sure is

Buy this: http://my105.com/classified.asp?id=16103

I saw that Dane lol I don't have a spare 55g just yet. Wonder if he'd take a Silvia, $50 and a slab...

[sav man]

buy this instead http://my105.com/classified.asp?id=6723

word around Tassie is that he'll let it go closer to $40,000

Edited August 2, 2010 by sav man

[No Crust Racing]

I was literally just looking at that...

and this... http://my105.com/classified.asp?id=12991

Edited August 2, 2010 by ActionDan