My First Clutch Change

[The Dan]

lol.... i'd trust a jim berry clutch.... but NOT a JB second hand flywheel... get a new one and you should be right...

afaik all those failures (scary scary failures nonetheless) were from machined flywheels as JB does not xray them for stress fractures.

lol... i haven't really let anyone else try my clutch yet.... should do it for a laugh

No, absolutely nothing to do with flywheel. Noel had the billet aftermarket one. It was the second hand cover/pressure plate that exploded like a grenade and nearly wrote the car off.

[Galois]

what about getting a new pressure plate fro jb and using the same flywheel, just machined?

Edited September 13, 2010 by Galois

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

No, absolutely nothing to do with flywheel. Noel had the billet aftermarket one. It was the second hand cover/pressure plate that exploded like a grenade and nearly wrote the car off.

really.... i thougt it was the same as benm's failure... my bad

[Galois]

I was gonna leave this thread as is, but then figured some poor guy might read it and take ift for gospel and waste as much time as I have.

Not only that but the pull type 34 clutch is 250mm diameter as opposed to the 240mm 32 and 33 covers.

R33 GTR cover is not all that needs to be done. The pedal engagement point is shithouse when using a straight GTR cover, it needs to be modified to make it feel the way it should as the heights are different.

Okay mate, after reading your post I was pretty concerned because it disagreed with all the opinions I had got so far on what to do, but after calling several mechanics and clutch salesmen I have got some details confirmed:

The r33 gtr has a push type pressure plate, and the clutch is 250mm. It is a direct substitute for the r34 clutch assembly and cheaper, one of the few times cheaper will be better. Better here being heavy duty, as the r33 gtr pressure plate has 2600 lb of force, ~50% more than stock. For the OP: HD means higher clamp force and an organic plate, it's not a different type of clutch, just a stronger clamp.

Also, apparently every clutch installation requires the pedal engagement point to be altered. Further, this should be adjusted every 10 000km to ensure it's fairly consistent. No=one does this though as they don't notice it. But as the clutch wears, the pressure plate moves further and the clutch pedal has to be moved further/lesser to move the pressure plate the right amount. It is apparently shit easy to do for the mechanics, as they do it all the time.

The only way you'd ever want a Jim Berry clutch is if you don't value your car/toes/legs as his second hand covers tend to explode when used in combination with slicks and over 450hp.

Really, "tends"? As in, it'll do that preferentially over not exploding? I know forums are places of exaggeration and hyperbole but there are forum rules about discrediting companies.

Come on mate, no need to be overly harsh. You're referring to instances without acknowledging all the details. I'd imagine Jim's info on the incident is quite different to yours? His side of the story is too, but he isn't on here to slam you for trying to defame him. I'm not siding one way or the other, but please post what you know to be truthful info. I didn't need to waste my time looking into your comments before deciding whom to buy a clutch from (I still don't know, but could have used that time figuring it out rather than validating or otherwise your claims)

Seco wouldn't be the pick of the cover brands. Exedy covers are much better quality. We have had more ppl come back with problems when using the RPM and Seco covers than we ever do with Exedy ones (customer supplied seco and RPM covers that is - we refuse to use them)

I said seco clutch plate, not pressure plate. Apparently the seco ones are a very similar structure however compressed more equally, ie: less poorly made ones. I however can't confirm this because I have not unwrapped any clutch plates yet, so I/we have to trust those who have.

tends to engage right on the floor even when at maximum adjustment.

My mechanic laughed when I asked him how hard this is to do, they do it all the time, on every clutch change.

Mate I'm not trying to discredit you, but I really hate having my time wasted and flaming people on forums when they're not here to defend themselves doesn't look great.

Cheers for your help

[The Dan]

I was gonna leave this thread as is, but then figured some poor guy might read it and take ift for gospel and waste as much time as I have.

Okay mate, after reading your post I was pretty concerned because it disagreed with all the opinions I had got so far on what to do, but after calling several mechanics and clutch salesmen I have got some details confirmed:

The r33 gtr has a push type pressure plate, and the clutch is 250mm. It is a direct substitute for the r34 clutch assembly and cheaper, one of the few times cheaper will be better. Better here being heavy duty, as the r33 gtr pressure plate has 2600 lb of force, ~50% more than stock. For the OP: HD means higher clamp force and an organic plate, it's not a different type of clutch, just a stronger clamp.

Also, apparently every clutch installation requires the pedal engagement point to be altered. Further, this should be adjusted every 10 000km to ensure it's fairly consistent. No=one does this though as they don't notice it. But as the clutch wears, the pressure plate moves further and the clutch pedal has to be moved further/lesser to move the pressure plate the right amount. It is apparently shit easy to do for the mechanics, as they do it all the time.

Really, "tends"? As in, it'll do that preferentially over not exploding? I know forums are places of exaggeration and hyperbole but there are forum rules about discrediting companies.

Come on mate, no need to be overly harsh. You're referring to instances without acknowledging all the details. I'd imagine Jim's info on the incident is quite different to yours? His side of the story is too, but he isn't on here to slam you for trying to defame him. I'm not siding one way or the other, but please post what you know to be truthful info. I didn't need to waste my time looking into your comments before deciding whom to buy a clutch from (I still don't know, but could have used that time figuring it out rather than validating or otherwise your claims)

I said seco clutch plate, not pressure plate. Apparently the seco ones are a very similar structure however compressed more equally, ie: less poorly made ones. I however can't confirm this because I have not unwrapped any clutch plates yet, so I/we have to trust those who have.

My mechanic laughed when I asked him how hard this is to do, they do it all the time, on every clutch change.

Mate I'm not trying to discredit you, but I really hate having my time wasted and flaming people on forums when they're not here to defend themselves doesn't look great.

Cheers for your help

I'm glad you have raised these points as I am quite happy to elaborate. I'm not trying to defame anyone on here. It's not defamation if it's true and we have hard facts to prove it. He tried to bullshit his way out of responsibility when Noel's exploded and Noel just didn't have the energy to fight it. I'm here to educate as many ppl as I can and until he changes the way he makes his clutches, I'll continue to do so. His clutches can be dangerous. I am the last person who wants to see a death as a result of him using second hand parts. and yes....he uses second hand parts to build them. Several cars have been victim to one of his exploding clutches but no one ever says anything. Everybody is too busy prancing around listening to his bullshit stories about dowels and bolts.

All of the clutches built by Exedy and NPC (not sure about Direct clutch) undergo burst testing as required by Australian standards. The whole reason why they ditched the non-nodular cast iron pressure plates is because when they introduced burst testing, they didn't pass. These pressure plates are in all the early Skylines. These covers are getting harder to find so more and more of the clutches coming out of that place will eventually be able to withstand the hard loading that they are apparently designed for but who knows when you'll get an old shitty one?

I've got photos around somewhere I'll be happy to post them up if you want to see the destruction.

Not only that but you pay $1100 for a clutch that should retail for $6-700

As for adjusting the clutch, yes, it's incredibly easy to adjust the free travel at the pedal end. I'm not talking about the pedal adjustment. I'm talking about adjusting the cover height which can only be done when building the clutch.

yes you can directly use the pull type cover from the 33GTR and adjust the pedal to suit but it will still be a shithouse feel.

I'd be happy to talk with any of the mechanics you want. I spent a decade in the brake and clutch industry.

Think of it this way.....

10,000 ppl could eat at a restaurant. 5 or 6 ppl you know who went there got severe food poisoning. Then another friend says 'Hey I wanna go to that restaurant'....would you tell them go for it? or would you educate them and tell them there is a possible risk?

We have discussed this many times in these forums. I would actually REALLY REAAAAAAALY like Jim to come here and tell me why I'm wrong. I would hand him his arse on a platter coz that guy will kill someone one day and he bloody knows it

[siksII]

On a side note - why would you need a heavy duty clutch for track use? My clutch is slipped less at the track than when I am driving around in traffic due to stopping and starting. Does that only apply to those who aren't heel and toeing?

The only time I abuse my clutch at the track is popping it mid corner sometimes as a fun way to fix understeer. Even then, it feels kind of abusive but since the clutch grabs right away it barely slips.

[Yts]

not directly related to jim berrys clutches but i understand the seriousness having been unfortunate enough to experience and exploding clutch an (exedy heavy duty cushion button) as one of your first choices (rated to 500hp) on a 2jz cressida with 250rwkw and it scared the living hell out of me, not to mention threw bolts and cracked the bell housing and the undercarridge where my foot was (left an indent in the undercarrige about 10cm any more and it would have come through the floor) and to add to it exedy took now claim to it being at fault as they had never had a problem with one of those clutches so bought another one and my mechanic repaired the damadge installed the same clutch again and on the test drive just after it had all be put back together did the exact same thing only worse. so in my opinion i would stay away from the cushion button. at least they took notice to a fault when it happened the second time, hopefully rectified now

[Galois]

On a side note - why would you need a heavy duty clutch for track use? My clutch is slipped less at the track than when I am driving around in traffic due to stopping and starting. Does that only apply to those who aren't heel and toeing?

The only time I abuse my clutch at the track is popping it mid corner sometimes as a fun way to fix understeer. Even then, it feels kind of abusive but since the clutch grabs right away it barely slips.

i have a stock clutch and at 13psi with foot down it slips, can't accelerate over 120km/h because of slippage and boost lol

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

On a side note - why would you need a heavy duty clutch for track use? My clutch is slipped less at the track than when I am driving around in traffic due to stopping and starting. Does that only apply to those who aren't heel and toeing?

The only time I abuse my clutch at the track is popping it mid corner sometimes as a fun way to fix understeer. Even then, it feels kind of abusive but since the clutch grabs right away it barely slips.

clutch is constantly dropped on WOT