Incorrect/confusing Fine, Need Help Badly.

[Darkplague]

Hi, cant seem to find a 100% answer about this, even reading the qld road rules pdf, it doesnt give an exact answer. That or i dont understand.

Basicly i was coming off a highway where the offramp merges with a main road rather suddenly, i checked side and rear mirrors as i was coming off and saw no one, just before i merged i looked beside me and in my side view mirror and still no one, so i merged.

Just as i merged the traffic stopped because of a red light, i looked in my rear view mirror and there was a cop on a motorbike with his lights on telling me to pull over. So i pull over and the cop fines me for not giving way when merging from a slip lane and told me i should of yeilded or pulled ove,r even though there wasnt a yeild sign and the road ends so it would result in stoping off the road.

The thing is it wasnt a slip lane, the road actualy merges from 3 to 2 in an instant. I would think if he was behind me he should of seen i was merging and slowed down so there wouldnt be a problem, but he basicly said because he had to slow down i didnt give way (despite there being a red light anyway so he would of had to stop regardless.)

I would like to take this to court because it deffently wasnt a slip lane, obviously if it WAS a slip lane i always have to give way. If i take the fine it will result in the loss of my license which i use for work daily, the problem is i cant find out who legaly had right of way.

source: page 151

http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN...antOpRURR09.pdf

This is the rules about merging, shown this to 4 people and its confused everyone.

Any help/opinions would be great help thanks.

Edited October 18, 2010 by Darkplague

[ZENNON]

So you had to merge into his lane? (ie cross a dotten line)

Yes sounds like you should have given way...

ps. thread needs more ms paint diagrams

[Damit]

So you had to merge into his lane? (ie cross a dotten line)

Yes sounds like you should have given way...

ps. thread needs more ms paint diagrams

throw in a street view from google aswell of the location

[Darkplague]

Terrible drawing but...

[Darkplague]

As for map its a bit old, the offramp/merge has changed a bit.

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&sou...mp;t=h&z=19

Coming off Bruce Highway merging onto Anzac Avenue, Kallangur.

Also street view, its on the wrong side of the road looking at the merge lane on the other side, looks like you have ages to merge but when you're actualy driving along it very short.

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&sou...178.23,,0,22.54

Edited October 18, 2010 by Darkplague

[Damit]

Doesn't look like merge lane from layout of drawing

but could be other things you could look at with it

but as always speak with someone who does traffic law and only use advise here as a rough guide to see if worth going to court

[PWND]

As for map its a bit old, the offramp/merge has changed a bit.

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&sou...mp;t=h&z=19

Coming off Bruce Highway merging onto Anzac Avenue, Kallangur.

Also street view, its on the wrong side of the road looking at the merge lane on the other side, looks like you have ages to merge but when you're actualy driving along it very short.

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&sou...178.23,,0,22.54

It might be worth while speaking to a lawyer that has experience in dealing with traffic infringements. It may cost you some cash, but if retaining your licence is important to you, it might be worth while.

I am sure he could argue that the police officer had to slow down, not because you merged, but because of the stopped traffic right in front of you. It might even pay to give the station a call and question it with a ranking officer.

[jaxt]

try nearmap

it should have a much later map.

[Smity42]

I know the place you are talking about, your MSPAINT diagram is accurate. More recent picture (not sure if you need to sign up or anything, it's free) http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-27.248201,153....mp;nmd=20100907

The lane doesn't suddenly end, it is miles long.

YES, you needed to give way there. There is a dotted line ie a GIVE WAY line.

Your situation EXACTLY follows example 2 on page 151 of the document you linked. You are driver B. "In these examples, vehicle B must give way to vehicle A".

Don't go to court, you will lose. Suck it up and pay the fine.

Suggest you use your spare time not driving learning the road rules.

[Darkplague]

I know the place you are talking about, your MSPAINT diagram is accurate. More recent picture (not sure if you need to sign up or anything, it's free) http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-27.248201,153....mp;nmd=20100907

The lane doesn't suddenly end, it is miles long.

YES, you needed to give way there. There is a dotted line ie a GIVE WAY line.

Your situation EXACTLY follows example 2 on page 151 of the document you linked. You are driver B. "In these examples, vehicle B must give way to vehicle A".

Don't go to court, you will lose. Suck it up and pay the fine.

Suggest you use your spare time not driving learning the road rules.

Im well aware of the rules, this is the only one i have a problem with. If you read whats written under the example you will see it has a subsection that contradicts the example (unless im reading it very wrong). Even talking to department of transport couldnt even give me a straight answer.

and i dont know how you figure its miles longs since its a solid line untill the very end, your link clearly shows that.

Maybe i didnt explain my self well, but im not sure why im giving way, he was no where near me when i was merging, its not like he had to evade, or brake hard, he was coming down the hill still while i was merging, and by the time i was 100% stopped he was only just behind me at that point. Meaning maybe he had to brake a bit more because there was 1 extra car.

But if you think im 100% in the wrong regardless than fair enough.

(looking at my picture ive drawn the cop far to close)

[Smity42]

Your initial post seemed to indicate you didn't think you had to give way at all. This is 100% incorrect as there is a give way line there, as the example demonstrates.

The text does not contradict the example at all, although admittedly the wording is confusing. You broke the rule in subsection 1. Subsection 2 deals with "lines of traffic" not marked lanes, and subsection 3 says that subsection 2 does not apply if "two lines of traffic" are merging. This is not your scenario, your scenario is subsection 1.

Here is an example of subsection 2:

Note there are no marked lanes, just two "lines of traffic". Vehicle B must give way to Vehicle A (subsection 2) unless the two lines of traffic are merging (subsection 3). Even then in this example vehicle B must give way as it is behind Vehicle A.

So you 100% did have to give way to the policeman.

Now, as to how far back he was, well, that we will not know as we were not there. But basically if he had to brake AT ALL to avoid hitting you then you didn't give way to him. Since you were pulling into cars stopped at the lights the definition is a little fuzzy, but unless you have any independant witnesses it will be your word against the cop's and the cop's will stand. Especially if you were in a Skyline.

The fact that he pulled you over indicates one of a few possibilities:

1) He was in your blind spot and you didn't see him, so he had to swerve/brake to avoid you.

2) He was closer than you thought and had to brake to avoid you

3) He is an a*shole and didn't have to slow down at all to avoid you, but booked you because you were in a Skyline and he could.

Unfortunately for you, even is scenario 3) is the correct one, without independant witnesses you're pretty boned

Edited October 18, 2010 by Smity42

[Darkplague]

O well, thanks for your help anyway, i guess i will just have to take the fine and 3 months suspension, i doubt i could last a year on good behaviour in a skyline for the reason that its a skyline.

[PWND]

O well, thanks for your help anyway, i guess i will just have to take the fine and 3 months suspension, i doubt i could last a year on good behaviour in a skyline for the reason that its a skyline.

I did a year good behaviour in a skyline, without a working speedo. It can be done.

[Darkplague]

I did a year good behaviour in a skyline, without a working speedo. It can be done.

Yeah i had a freind who did it in a skyline as well, so i know it can be done, im not sure how though lol.

I guess just be super super carefull and a tiny bit lucky.

[Col-GTSX]

I drive along there every day...

You must have got a copper on a bad day, as merging is a bit of give and take when there is heavy traffic around...

[Damit]

I drive along there every day...

You must have got a copper on a bad day, as merging is a bit of give and take when there is heavy traffic around...

you could be a real prick with that if you had the time with traffic and you would be doing everything 100% legal and have traffic backed up for miles especialy around the city in peak hour

[Darkplague]

you could be a real prick with that if you had the time with traffic and you would be doing everything 100% legal and have traffic backed up for miles especialy around the city in peak hour

This is why i dont understand this rule, because you could do exactly this.

I dont think many people understand/know this rule or choose to ignore it, cause you would have idiots sitting blocking traffic untill its 100% clear and theres no traffic in a million miles.

Especialy in heavy traffic, you could be sitting waiting for hours for traffic to clear.

Edited October 18, 2010 by Darkplague

[Col-GTSX]

I think what might of happened is;

* you didnt see the motorbike and almost ran him over in merging so he booked you

* you didnt see the motorbike and he didnt see you turn your head, so he booked you anyway for failure to merge safely

* you merged, he wanted to talk to someone cause he is lonely on the bike, gave you a ticket in the process

[Darkplague]

I think what might of happened is;

* you didnt see the motorbike and almost ran him over in merging so he booked you

* you didnt see the motorbike and he didnt see you turn your head, so he booked you anyway for failure to merge safely

* you merged, he wanted to talk to someone cause he is lonely on the bike, gave you a ticket in the process

He was behind me so i doubt i nearly ran him over, if at the very very worst he may of run into me, but at the speed we were at i doubt it, that and the distance between him and me. The cop is also well known around petrie area, big heavy guy on a bike.

He also said he was going to take me to court right there, but he decide he was going to be "nice" and go for $300 and 3 points.

Im not saying its impossible we didnt have a close call but very unlikely. Up to you how you wanna look at it.

[Lazy-Bastard]

I'll take your word for it and assume you didn't cut the bike off....

If so, the fine sounds like complete bullshit!!

As others have said, if every idiot sat stationary at the merge point of a freeway onramp, waiting for a gap big enough to do 0 - 100 km/hr before being rear-ended, there would be traffic chaos and road rage aplenty!!

I don't know (or care for that matter....common sense rules IMO) if road rules have changed since I got my license but I was taught 1 in - 1 out when merging. You accelerate up to the speed of the lane you are merging into AS YOU REACH THE MERGE POINT, then with a little give and take, merge in and nobody needs to brake at all.

The idiots that speed up when they see a car approaching to merge, or in peak hour don't do the 1 in 1 out for queued traffic on onramps, are the people who need to be fined!! (and beaten severely )

Your fine would appear to support the latter (Oh no you don't!!) method of merging, which is farking ridiculous.

I would contest it, but obviously get legal advice before you do so and see what your chances of success are.

Traffic cops FTMFL.....fark I hate those wankers!!