Is Anyone Running Deutschwerks Injectors?

[ARTZ]

just found sidefeed 740cc DWs on special for 590$ delivered..

thats 350$ cheaper than the cheapest Nismos I could find..

postage direct from DW was killer...115$

[Hadouken]

But the whole purpose of doing this is to find a direct fit. No spacers or soldering new plugs.

Do the id's offer this?

[Rolls]

I bought 740s because they are bolt/plug in and all Ive heard is good things apart from guilt toy who hasn't even backed his opinion up.

[ARTZ]

so your using em too Rolls, i did not know this..so how are they..hows your economy and inj duty and all..cold start etc yadda yadda...cmon spill the beans...

[Rolls]

They are sitting in a box about to go in in a few weeks, will report in my worklog when I get it tuned, could be a while as it has to pass a defect inspection and still needs some parts.

Bought them mainly because they are bolt/plug in and are the same colour as stock, also I have not heard anything bad until GT piped up.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Rolls

[ARTZ]

Do you know if they are a pintle or disc injector??

Any chance you could post a pics of the spray holes..

Also how close is the colour match to the stockies

[Rolls]

Don't have stockies here to compare but here is some photos. Will be picking up my stock ones to compare in a few days though as I am also curious if I am going to have to paint them or not.

[ARTZ]

see another thing I dont understand is why, if these are made from new stock would they not go to the extra little effort to make a few more holes in the nozzle if it is so improtant for atomization and all..

I was looking at a set of 550s the other day, I thought were nismos 555s but they had a 10 hole spray nozzle where Nismos only have 4..I think they were subaroo injectors or somethign

Now this should make car run/idle great smooth and economical, but would the improved atomization be enough to compensate a lack of fuel should I hit 500hp..

I guess I could bump up rail pressure but............

they were the same price as nismos anyway

[toffy]

i think i have a set of deautchwerks , they were sold to me as nismo 740's but i got them cleaned and flow tested and they came up at 540cc

[Rolls]

see another thing I dont understand is why, if these are made from new stock would they not go to the extra little effort to make a few more holes in the nozzle if it is so improtant for atomization and all..

I imagine making extra equal sized holes would be quite difficult to reliably do all the same size etc. Would probably mean a higher percentage don't pass their quality control. That or it may not even be possible for them to drill extra holes due to the material etc.

[HYPED6]

HHmmm, I may be wrong, And please let me know Guilt Toy and I will keep my mouth shut and retreat back to my corner, but I think everyone is missing the big picture.

Now im no expert, but this is what I do know about injectors.

No 2 injectors are the same, Even out of the same batch, out of brand new boxes there are always slight variations. These may be flow rates at certain pulse widths or voltages or pressures.

It may be one injector operates correctly at 1.123 ms where another needs 1.204 to deliver a good spray pattern at idle. Now any good tuner will have a bench tester to check these things before they go any where near your car. Even brand new injectors need to be tested, I have literally tested thousands and have sent many back because of poor or inconsistent flow rates or poor injector latency.

Now...... If an injector dies, fails completely is that bad? No its an unfortunate event.... if there is no bang in the cylinder, there is no heat. If there is no heat then its not lean and nothing melts.

However, what If an Injector at 6500 rpm, at 75psi at 12.6ms flows 10% less than his 5 friends?

Now, if you are tuning with individual cylinder temps/AFR's then this will become very apparent, and something can be dome about it........ but what if you not?

Actually, this is a little test for all you budding tuners out there. Next time you are road mapping your Power FC, Jump on the brakes, get your engine up too a few pound of boost, watch your AFR's then pull 10% out of one cylinder....... and what what happens too your AFR's......... They will go from 13.2:1 to probably around 13.3:1.

Now if this is the case, then at full noise who is too say that your "safe" mixtures of 11.8:1 are not

1 - 10.5:1

2 - 13.3:1

3 - 11.5:1

4 - 10.1:1

5 - 11.7:1

6 - 12.8:1

Hands up who knows what cylinder is going to die first? You guessed it..... old mate number 2, but your mixtures where 11.8:1 they where safe.

The thing here is not always to go for the best cheapest quality you can find, they are the ones that haven't been tested, that don't get put into specific batches so they are as similar as they can be.

For the sake of even an extra $350 it may save you an engine just to know that they are right. And even then get them tested any way.

I haven't even touched on the spray pattern quality and its effects on flame propagation and heat dissipation yet. That's for another day.

[Rolls]

Gasket leaks can also cause similar symptoms, I had a bad air leak on cyl 3 and 4, luckily my tune was super rich at ~10.5:1 so it wouldn't have been more than ~12.5:1 on the other cylinders.

But yeah, good advice, and also why I believe the deatchwerks to be a good injector because they already come with a complete bench flow test report for each cylinder. Though because I am super anal I am considering getting them bench tested locally as well, might be some useful information for this thread anyway.

Anyone recommend flow testing in Adelaide?

[R33 Eddy]

HHmmm, I may be wrong, And please let me know Guilt Toy and I will keep my mouth shut and retreat back to my corner, but I think everyone is missing the big picture.

Now im no expert, but this is what I do know about injectors.

.....

Lies you are an expert

[Guilt-Toy]

HHmmm, I may be wrong, And please let me know Guilt Toy and I will keep my mouth shut and retreat back to my corner, but I think everyone is missing the big picture.

Now im no expert, but this is what I do know about injectors.

No 2 injectors are the same, Even out of the same batch, out of brand new boxes there are always slight variations. These may be flow rates at certain pulse widths or voltages or pressures.

It may be one injector operates correctly at 1.123 ms where another needs 1.204 to deliver a good spray pattern at idle. Now any good tuner will have a bench tester to check these things before they go any where near your car. Even brand new injectors need to be tested, I have literally tested thousands and have sent many back because of poor or inconsistent flow rates or poor injector latency.

Now...... If an injector dies, fails completely is that bad? No its an unfortunate event.... if there is no bang in the cylinder, there is no heat. If there is no heat then its not lean and nothing melts.

However, what If an Injector at 6500 rpm, at 75psi at 12.6ms flows 10% less than his 5 friends?

Now, if you are tuning with individual cylinder temps/AFR's then this will become very apparent, and something can be dome about it........ but what if you not?

Actually, this is a little test for all you budding tuners out there. Next time you are road mapping your Power FC, Jump on the brakes, get your engine up too a few pound of boost, watch your AFR's then pull 10% out of one cylinder....... and what what happens too your AFR's......... They will go from 13.2:1 to probably around 13.3:1.

Now if this is the case, then at full noise who is too say that your "safe" mixtures of 11.8:1 are not

1 - 10.5:1

2 - 13.3:1

3 - 11.5:1

4 - 10.1:1

5 - 11.7:1

6 - 12.8:1

Hands up who knows what cylinder is going to die first? You guessed it..... old mate number 2, but your mixtures where 11.8:1 they where safe.

The thing here is not always to go for the best cheapest quality you can find, they are the ones that haven't been tested, that don't get put into specific batches so they are as similar as they can be.

For the sake of even an extra $350 it may save you an engine just to know that they are right. And even then get them tested any way.

I haven't even touched on the spray pattern quality and its effects on flame propagation and heat dissipation yet. That's for another day.

even after this post he is not going to change his mind. "people" need to learn the hard way. (including myself, been there done that)

I just have one thing to say, the injectors should be of the highest quality as possible.

great post Hyped6

[Rolls]

even after this post he is not going to change his mind. "people" need to learn the hard way. (including myself, been there done that)

I just have one thing to say, the injectors should be of the highest quality as possible.

great post Hyped6

So why are DW bad then?

[ARTZ]

even after this post he is not going to change his mind. "people" need to learn the hard way. (including myself, been there done that)

I just have one thing to say, the injectors should be of the highest quality as possible.

great post Hyped6

ouch...

You are right though, its the old "you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink" syndrome that I suffer from frequently..

BUT...truth is I was still sitting on the fence about the whole thing and when I read Hyped post this morning and it actually made the difference and I fell off the fence.

Also with postage (which I miscalculated) the DWs werent working out as cheap as I had hoped either..Plus there is the hassle of buying form overseas etc..

So because its my last purchase on this build and as you say one of the most important, a couple of hundred extra now after all I have spent should be the least of my worries..

I rang my injector guy to see what else he could offer and now have some special planned just for you...

Its a little over the top, but the price is right and the equipment is good so...Stay tuned!!

[Rolls]

I didn't get charged for postage, they billed me for the injectors and sent an invoice for shipping but never charged me for it. Took 1 week to get here.

If the DW have the same spray pattern/nozzle, they come with injector flow tests and lets just assume that a local flow test also matches this then what is the issue?

They bolt in and look stock which no others do and they have the same spray pattern etc, if they flow identically then it seems they have two pros, cheaper, look stock over everything else and no cons?

I am really quite confused where you are coming from GT. How does the quality differ from bosch etc? What evidence do we have that there is any difference what so ever?

Edited January 20, 2012 by Rolls

[SimonR32]

So of the 10 people I counted using these injectors in this thread, 10 are very happy with them and have no issues...

So 100% positive feedback from people who use and own them? Interesting

Edited January 20, 2012 by SimonR32

[ARTZ]

^^lol..

JFTR, my change of mind wasnt due entirely to doubts on the DWs, though I did hear "made in china", but what isn't these days

I Would still like to see some proof they are no good as well..

I just had other ideas that prevailed eventually...

[Rolls]

Why did you have ANY doubts at all though?