Nsw Demerits For Bus Lanes Penalty Applicable To Vic License?

[lethargica]

Hi all,

I've recently been issued a penalty notice from NSW for driving on a bus lane along Liverpool St and Bathurst St. My friends from overseas and I were there for a short weekend trip (i.e. none of us are local to NSW) and that was the only day that we rented a car. The offence happened about one hour after picking up the car. It was our first morning in Sydney.

I have had a VIC drivers license for about 3 years now and I have never had any traffic offences. I have also not had any traffic offences when I was driving back in my home country for all the 7 years I have been driving.

My questions are:

1) Does anyone know if I will have a high/low rate of success if I pleaded for leniency or cancellation as we were obviously unfamiliar with the traffic? Should I be pleading for leniency or cancellation or just mention both?

2) Would it help if I told them that I was anticipating to turn left at the immediate intersection but only found out at the traffic lights that it (Albion Place) is not an actual intersection and I had to stay on to turn off at Bathurst? Also that, I could not get out of the bus lane due to moderate moving traffic in that short span of time and move back in before the Bathurst intersection to turn off?

3) If in the event my appeal is not successful, will the demerit points apply to my Victorian license?

I have just received the notice two days ago and am planning to write an online appeal. Hoping you guys could advise me before I do so.

Appreciate any thoughts!

Thanks folks!

[oweban]

Were you using a GPS as provided by the hire company, which told you that you can turn down that road?

Not saying that it'll help at all - I guess more a curiosity on my behalf.

[xntrq]

Appeal it. I've appealed so many things and have had it overturned. Worse things worse? you cop the fine, that's it. At least you've tried mate. I assume this was on George St in Sydney CBD? I walk past there every day heading to work and yes it is considered as a lane way but it's more of a walkway. Tell them why you were in the bus lane and why you shouldn't be fined. The area IS jam packed with traffic depending on the time of the day and may be impossible to change lanes safely (also tell them that you were in this situation where you were "boxed in"). They may be lenient if you can type up a proper and formal appeal with sufficient evidence backing you up in why you had no knowledge of the area.

If you want to save your points as well and the appeal fails, take it to a local court or consult with a traffic offence lawyer first to see what they can do for you. I get clients all the time who work for law firms and some attend court sessions for traffic offences and have told me that they are somewhat lenient in there if your point is valid and not like "my buddy from Mars was driving".

[kylieyeah]

I assume this was on George St in Sydney CBD?

Lol, no.

Hi all,

I've recently been issued a penalty notice from NSW for driving on a bus lane along Liverpool St and Bathurst St.

[Watchamacallit]

Liverpool and Bathurst St do not have Bus Lanes. I am assuming with the wording that it was on George St between Liverpool and Bathurst.

There is a Bus Lane camera located at the Three Wise Monkeys, corner of Livepool and George St in the direction of travel to Bathurst.

[lethargica]

Were you using a GPS as provided by the hire company, which told you that you can turn down that road?

Not saying that it'll help at all - I guess more a curiosity on my behalf.

Nah, not exactly. I had a human GPS with an iPhone on google maps on the passenger seat next to me. Lol...

[lethargica]

Appeal it. I've appealed so many things and have had it overturned. Worse things worse? you cop the fine, that's it. At least you've tried mate. I assume this was on George St in Sydney CBD? I walk past there every day heading to work and yes it is considered as a lane way but it's more of a walkway. Tell them why you were in the bus lane and why you shouldn't be fined. The area IS jam packed with traffic depending on the time of the day and may be impossible to change lanes safely (also tell them that you were in this situation where you were "boxed in"). They may be lenient if you can type up a proper and formal appeal with sufficient evidence backing you up in why you had no knowledge of the area.

If you want to save your points as well and the appeal fails, take it to a local court or consult with a traffic offence lawyer first to see what they can do for you. I get clients all the time who work for law firms and some attend court sessions for traffic offences and have told me that they are somewhat lenient in there if your point is valid and not like "my buddy from Mars was driving".

Thanks for the insight! Yea I will definitely send in an appeal online through the website. Have you had a bus lane offence overturned before? Sorry, maybe I made it really confusing because I mentioned VIC and overseas but yea, this is along George St, between Liverpool St and Bathurst St. It was 9.52am on a Friday morning. Just my luck, as I just checked that the bus lanes operate in the morning from 6am till 10AM! Eight minutes later and this wouldn't have been an issue From the pictures, traffic was not exactly jammed pack but it was not empty either, hence the moderate traffic I mentioned. I am planning to send in my car rental agreement to show that I have only rented the car for that one day and we have only picked up the car in the hour before the offence. Any ideas on what other documents I could submit?

I will probably pay the fine if the appeal does not go through. I stay in Melbourne and I guess it wouldn't be cost effective to fly over to NSW for court. Also, I've actually been out of work for more than six months which is the main reason why I realy need the appeal to go through. In this case, it does feel like "my buddy from Mars was driving"!

At times I wonder if I should just plead ignorance and thought that it was already after 10am since I saw other cars traveling behind me too....or because I'm an out-of-towner.... Or maybe temporary insanity Any suggestions, anyone?? *insert cricket sound here*

Oh btw, would you know if the demerit points would apply to me since I am holding a VIC license and not an NSW license?

Thanks again! I really appreciate your feedback. Have a good wknd!

[lethargica]

Liverpool and Bathurst St do not have Bus Lanes. I am assuming with the wording that it was on George St between Liverpool and Bathurst.

There is a Bus Lane camera located at the Three Wise Monkeys, corner of Livepool and George St in the direction of travel to Bathurst.

sorry I didn't clarify that I was on George, between Liverpool and Bathurst. and yes, I was caught on camera.

would you know if they could actually actually find out if I turned off at Bathurst, if the picture they took of me was a few meters before the traffic light? The camera would take periodical shots, and not screen capture from videos or do they?

[xntrq]

It's a still picture. I've gotten out of loading zone fines whilst in my R34 with my appeal on the lines of "Loading is a task performed by an individual to a vehicle in which the vehicle in question regardless of the shape and size, is utilized to complete the task as no other vehicle was available during the time of the offence. In addition, there were no immediate signs which states the types of vehicle is permitted to do so.".

Also you are permitted to use a bus lane within 100 metres of your turn.

In support of your appeal, you can base out on the grounds of:

- Unfamiliar with area

- 8 minutes from being permitted to use

- You abided to the 100 meter turn rule BUT you saw the wrong street name and proceed onwards to the next street where it was supposedly a turn but was not and due to moderate traffic, you were unable to change lanes safely.

OR

100 meters of Albion Pl but it was not a vehicle accessible road.

www.rta.nsw.gov.au/usingroads/buses/buslanes/index.html

[lethargica]

It's a still picture. I've gotten out of loading zone fines whilst in my R34 with my appeal on the lines of "Loading is a task performed by an individual to a vehicle in which the vehicle in question regardless of the shape and size, is utilized to complete the task as no other vehicle was available during the time of the offence. In addition, there were no immediate signs which states the types of vehicle is permitted to do so.".

Also you are permitted to use a bus lane within 100 metres of your turn.

In support of your appeal, you can base out on the grounds of:

- Unfamiliar with area

- 8 minutes from being permitted to use

- You abided to the 100 meter turn rule BUT you saw the wrong street name and proceed onwards to the next street where it was supposedly a turn but was not and due to moderate traffic, you were unable to change lanes safely.

OR

100 meters of Albion Pl but it was not a vehicle accessible road.

www.rta.nsw.gov.au/usingroads/buses/buslanes/index.html

hahah...that's a great argument you got there re loading zone vehicles. it's true they don't specify what vehicles are accepted and what are not.

I will definitely be stating all that you have mentioned in your suggestions. basically, very unfamiliar with the place. Not sure what documents I could provide them with but I'll just throw in my car rental agreement (which shows car rented only for the day and it was only just picked up) and my flight ticket (which shows that I've just arrived in Sydney the day before). Hopefully the more things I throw in (although maybe irrelevant), the more they will consider overturning it or downgrade it to a caution. and thanks for the bus lane link. read it like 1000 times before this to see if there was anything in there that could help my argument.

and just read up that the demerit points will be carried across to VIC as if the offence had been done here. bummer....

Have a good one buddy!

[xntrq]

hahah...that's a great argument you got there re loading zone vehicles. it's true they don't specify what vehicles are accepted and what are not.

I will definitely be stating all that you have mentioned in your suggestions. basically, very unfamiliar with the place. Not sure what documents I could provide them with but I'll just throw in my car rental agreement (which shows car rented only for the day and it was only just picked up) and my flight ticket (which shows that I've just arrived in Sydney the day before). Hopefully the more things I throw in (although maybe irrelevant), the more they will consider overturning it or downgrade it to a caution. and thanks for the bus lane link. read it like 1000 times before this to see if there was anything in there that could help my argument.

and just read up that the demerit points will be carried across to VIC as if the offence had been done here. bummer....

Have a good one buddy!

No problems mate. Hope it goes well.

[MBS206]

The road rules define what type of vehicle can stop in a loading zone.

If you're going to drive on the road, you should know them all really. It would make everyones life easier.

If I were the one reviewing the loading bay case I'd have declined your appeal. But lucky I don't work there.

[oweban]

Yep - loading zones imply cars that are used to transport. Only real "passenger" car that falls under this is a wagon - other than that, you're looking at commercial vehicles like VW Caddy (at smallest) to big vans like Vitos. You might even get away with an F650

[GTR-N1]

Rangers tell me different stories based on their own interpretations of the law re Loading Zone

With a Stag (admittedly with trade plates) I was told I had 15 mins. With the Foz I was told that I had to be in the process of loading or unloading; sometimes with a time limit; sometimes without.

Then I realised I should look up what the rules actually state like Matt said > never got around to it.

My interstate anomalies and thus failures include...

* trying a hook turn in Brisbane and getting pulled over

* nearly running over 2 passengers alighting from a tram in Melbourne