WRX eater or beater?

[MSPEC]

still havn't figured out why they feel that way - probably because they are a small light car. My girlfriends lancer gives me the same impression when I think I am driving it hard

[Sciby]

Sciby: its a common misconception that wrx's (b4's even) handle well, when they dont, they have good grip, and they 'feel' like they are cornering quickly, still havn't figured out why they feel that way, but handling and grip aren't the same thing...

Umm... for the second time, I said that I wasn't confusing grip and handling. Perhaps you should read my posts again. For the record, the tyres on the car I was in were 50% tread, it took corners happily, nothing earthshattering, but the ride and associated handling are very good.

Handling does not always mean cornering ability.

[Bax]

Bax from what you've written....my push bike is your speed. No drama's it's carbon fibre, so the power to weight should be good....but hey when does your mum come home?

Yeah mate, sure.. We're basically agreeing about the same thing and somewhere in the middle of it you copped your dads **** to your ass.. So relax a bit before you go throwing comments at people.

And my mum, hell if old ladies turn you on, go for your life.

[dstylez]

after driving a stock my00 wrx for the day today, i'd say that comparing a stock wrx and a stock r33 gtst, the wrx would come out on top... depending on how long you race for. its true that the gtst will catch the wrx, but that'd be after the quarter mile is over. i don't know if its just me but the wrx seemed a bit more responsive.. however its been a little while since my skyline has been stock

driver ability is also a consideration.

[GTR STI]

krawler the only battle I've had on the street is with my partner. She hates cars and the fact that I do. Love scaring her, when shes in the passenger seat....just makes me laugh....through the curves, S's and at empty rounder-bouts, I'm sure, after taking her claws out of the dash etc, she says she will never hop in my car again. Since being up here in Weipa, I've told her to drive it every now and again. (rego TOYS) If you see it on the street, edge her and it on....it's good for a laugh...she thinks car lovers are all hones.

Live on the North side of Brisbane in the Castle Hill estate at Murrumba Downs...will have to meet you all at Aspley Mac or somewhere else sometime.

Any FUN is good fun.

BAX what can I say....I was being mean....but not to your Mum....I though you were 12 or 13 and needed your mum to come home...not that I wanted to be with your mum. Age....what's wrong with old ladies!!!!! Don't they make you laugh and smile.....GO ON SMILE have a Good day.

It's hard to be serious all the time..........I can be a jerk or a clown at times too...ask my missus....she'd kill me if I refered to her as my MISSUS, I'm her slave.

[Mik]

I have owned lots of wrx's

A stock MY97-MY00 will do a dead 14 second quater mile at about 98mph

A stock MY01 will do a 14.2 at about 96mph (I know this from experience)

--See...the so called slow rex isn't so slow at all.

A stock MY02 will be a touch quicker as it has ower gear ratios (never owned one though)

A stock MY03 will also run a dead 14 at about 100mph (know heaps of people who have run this)

A My97-MY00 all standard except exhast will run a 13.7-13.8

The quickest I have seen a MY97-my00 run with stabdard turbo is about 13.2-13.3

I now have a MY00 STI. Only mods are a power FC and exhaust. Even running standard boost. It runs consistent 12.60s @ 111mph.

If I could get traction, I should be able to run a 12.3-12.4, as I have run a 12.6 with a 2.0 sec 60ft.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the best quater you will ever get in a stock R33 GTST is about 14.5 at about 98mph

[ferni]

Umm... for the second time, I said that I wasn't confusing grip and handling. Perhaps you should read my posts again. For the record, the tyres on the car I was in were 50% tread, it took corners happily, nothing earthshattering, but the ride and associated handling are very good.

Handling does not always mean cornering ability.

Sorry i was just making sure you knew there is a difference.

IMO a stock wrx handles 'ok', it grips very good, thats why i was concerned you were getting them mixed up, i wouldn't be basing my handling on a wrx.

[knore]

knorn

krawler

Reality please.

So most of you think, guess, umm de dar, that a rex beats you off the line....but low and behold you think you've got the top end to catch and pass...would this be within the first 200m, 300m, at the end of the 400m, the first k. or at the next TOWN???????

knorn...so after the mod's are you thinking you've got the quarter done in low to mid 13's? (Terminal speed my guess 100 to 110mph.....160 to 175kph.)

Fact clutch/flywheel first and with minor mod's to a rex...I'd be disappointed if it wasn't into the 12's.

Sum it up and look at it again.....a rex beats you off the line...beats you to the end of the quarter and your terminal speed is already 160 to 175kph....at what speed are you going to past the REX......................my STI has the 180kph speed limiter connected.....so if I'm the REX your racing, your only going to pass me, because the race is over and I'm backing off.

Again, in a race....if any driver/car has better reation time/traction and gets off the line first...it will take a car with a much better ET, as well as terminal speed to catch and pass it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

REALITY....rwd cars require slicks or a much greater terminal speed to make up for the metres loss on the start........next time your at the Drags, take note of the WRX's terminal speed. If you can't beat that terminal speed by at least 15MPH, your not going to beat it to the end of the quarter. THE ADVANTAGE OF TRACTION IS ONLY UNDER-ESTIMATED BY THOSE WHO DO NOT LEARN.

Regardless of the education.....the WOOP ASS, think I did stories, will always be told by the loser!!!

This is reality, are u in the matrix, or is the matrix in you, the question, that is

What we've been saying is stock for stock a wrx (NOT STI, if we are talking STI then compare to GTR ) doesnt beat the 33 off the line simply beacause of what you said at the top of this page.. it bogs down crazy thanks to an unmatched clutch to the 4wd system. And if the GTSt is anywhere near the WRX at half track then chances are it will beat it. Remember we are talking about normal WRXs here GTR STI and not STI as you own.

One thing some expeirence with turbo cars teaches u is turbos start to make expodential power higher in the rev range then down low. So a car can be behind behind at quarter track and still catch up, it has nothing to do with who gets the jump unless its a big jump, then obviously there isnt a chance.

Im yet to see a WRX thats only changed clutch and flywheel to get into 12s.

4WD vs RWD is only an advantage if the RWD car your racing cant get traction, But of course we are talking about standard cars here, and what standard GTST really has a traction problem? they dont. So stock for stock the wrx 4wd drive system doesnt give it the massive advantage that alot of people think it does :uh-huh:

Considering the brand new price for a 33 Gtst was pretty close to the new WRX price, this really is a good discussion.

[Mik]

There is now way that a stock GTST will run a quater mile anywhere near as quick as a WRX of any model!

What is the best time a stock GTST can run?

And no...there is no way a (non STI) wrx can run in the 12s with standard turbo

[MSPEC]

About a 14sec pass I think, a few basic mods and a good turn can almost see a flat 13

[GTR STI]

knore read my thread without missing or adding words.....read the shit leading to my replies.

LOOK at the 4th then 5th thread.

LOOK at where I joined in to provide reality in conversation and knowledge........

Yes....I compared the GTR to the STI!!!! and I have my second GTR.

REALITY to all, a stock GTR is not quick and will not beat a MY 2000 STI.

now you will really hear a lot of shit spoken, but only by thoses wearing blinkers, the immature, the inexperienced or the disapointed ones who don't have the money to modify.

SORRY...standard is very near unexciting.

Won't post in this thread again or come back to to read the garbage from the immature.

[MSPEC]

If we were talking about stock cars ... not sure what cars we are talking about any more BUT if we were talking about a Stock R33 GTR and any stock WRX (STI) my money would be on the GTR for sure. On track or drag the GTR is quicker, this is my experience and I have had a shit load of it.

[Sciby]

No one's really talked about power/weight ratios of the stock vehicles yet (that I've seen), so...

MY04 WRX (taken from subaru.com.au)

Max. output (DIN) kW/rpm 168/6000

Max. torque (DIN) Nm/rpm 300/3600

Unladen mass kg 1395

P/W ratio: 8.3

R33 GTS25t(taken from Meggala's page: http://www.meggala.com/r33main1.html - There seems to be some confusion over exact stock figures, 187kw, 180, same with weight... but Meggala's figures seem to be fairly average from what I've read, so I'm happy to use them. Anyone got any offical Nissan specs?)

Max power 184kW @ 6400rpm

Max torque 294Nm @ 4800rpm

Weight 1390kg

P/W ratio: 7.5

So... going by pure numbers, and all things being equal, the Skyline should be faster.

However...

... there are a lot of variables: driver weight, extra crap in the car, amount of fuel in the tank, tire wear, slipping clutches on the WRX or slipping rear wheels on the Skyline, driver error on launch or gear change, aerodynamics, the list goes on.

Bang for buck definitely goes to the skyline though... unless both of them are 2004 models.

[Sciby]

Well, er, since I'm avoiding work, R33 GTR vs STi.

MY2004 STi again, from subaru.com.au

Max. output (DIN) kW/rpm 195/6000

Max. torque (DIN) Nm/rpm 343/4000

Unladen mass kg 1470

P/W ratio: 7.5 (equal to the stock GTS25t... interesting...)

'95 R33 GTR from http://imports.motortraders.net.au/imports...spec.asp?id=617, again, feel free to find me offical specs.

Max power 206kW @ 6800rpm (real world, it's anyone's guess, but I've read on this page http://www.jbskyline.net/R33/GTR/Specs/ that it's 302hp, which by convert.exe is 225kw.)

Max torque 368Nm @ 4400rpm

Weight 1530kg

P/W ratio: 7.4 (possible 'real' figure: 6.8)

The AWD of the rex no longer becomes a big advantage, thanks to Atessa in the GTR, and the figures state that the 'R should be faster.

Although, GTR-Sti, who has owned both, stated his STi feels quicker. Is it actually faster or is it one of those perceived things from being in a different car? The stock figures would say it's not actually faster, but until we get a stock skyline and a stock wrx/sti, we'll never know for certain.

GTR-STi, even though you've left the thread, want to dyno and weigh both cars for us?

[Mik]

power to weight ratios mean nothing...because peak power means nothing.

A WRX has a lot more mid range torque than a GTST

[Sciby]

Well, until you show concrete evidence stating what you just did, your post sounds like nothing more than 'Lies, all lies!'. Considering the torque of the WRX is only 6nm more than the GTS, it would be hard to imagine the rex having a much larger midrange, because the GTS doesn't suddenly get this massive burst of power and torque... the stocker is very linear.

For the record, I'm completely objective about this. I have a Skyline. My friends have WRX's. I like cars

[BBQ]

From my experience, We have had wrx’s fully bombed with, big turbo upgrades, Autronic ECU’s, Fuel, Injectors, all the go fast parts putting out well over 220kw at four wheels running NoS. And our mild tunned r33 skylines and salvia’s with stock turbo’s, computers, etc, still seam to beat them, Its only in the last ¾ of the track though, when we catch the rex’s.

They have us until about 3rd Gear :-)

You can compare power figures until the cows come home but they don’t mean jac, until you run you car on the strip. Because theirs a big difference between the strip and the dyno.

[HKS_32R]

rexies are tough as

[Mik]

A standard WRX is tuned to drop boost at high RPM which is why they don't make much power.

I can prove all of the times I listed

[Sciby]

HKS: they certainly are, utterly nothing wrong with them... as a mate just stated, a GTR is for the track, and STi is for the rally...

BBQ: Figures are just figures and real world is real world, but until we've got some real world evidence between the two, all we can really do is put the stock figures up against each other.