Hydraulic Lifter Problem

[Roy]

Well it looks like i have a failed hydraulic lifter. Speaking to a few head reconditioners this morning it seems whilst its not common it can happen. Only prob is it seemg its next to impossible to by new RB20 hydraulic lifters

So since i have a spare 48, 24 from an NA head and 24 from my old head, can i get away with using 2nd hand ones? I guess so, but how do i go about testing/matching the best 12 (ill replace all of them on the exhaust side).

Thought of going to solids but the ppl i spoke to this monring said it would cost more then the engine to do so.... :Oops:

So who knows nissan engines parts lists, can i use RB25 lifters, RB30 ???? Whats available as when they recondition the head they dotn replace lifters, just valve seat and stem seals etc etc

[WazR32GTSt]

man, what's with your car? you don't get much luck do you!

[Bl4cK32]

I didnt completely read through this one, but it might help you out :

http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/rec.au...ges/555011.html

edit/ i still got that rb20det head here too if you need anything from it everything bar 2 exhaust valves....

[wrxhoon]

whats wrong with the lifter ? very noisy ? did you have the cil head serviced recently ?

if you did thats the problem , you must bleed the lifters before you put them back otherwise they maybe noisy .

you could probably find the faulty lifter , or lifters , without taking them out , press on the lifter very hard it should not go down if it does its faulty .

if you are going to do it yourself let me know and i'll post how to test and bleed them .

i think all rbs use the same lifters but not 100 % on that as i havent cross changed them , you may want to check with nissan on that .

[ylwgtr2]

call neil at bob binks ford/nissan and buy some new ones...he is VERY helpfull for all parts

[Roy]

call neil at bob binks ford/nissan and buy some new ones...he is VERY helpfull for all parts

Thanks for the heads up, ill give him a try in the morning.

whats wrong with the lifter ? very noisy ? did you have the cil head serviced recently ?  

if you did thats the problem , you must bleed the lifters before you put them back otherwise they maybe noisy .

you could probably find the faulty lifter , or lifters , without taking them out , press on the lifter very hard it should not go down if it does its faulty .

if you are going to do it yourself let me know and i'll post how to test and bleed them .

i think all rbs use the same lifters but not 100 % on that as i havent cross changed them , you may want to check with nissan on that .

Well on cold start it makes brief tapping noise, about 1-2 seconds. Cold , warm it doesnt matter i can drive along at under 2800rpm with any throttle position and th eengine doesnt maek any noise, and the PFC engine light doesnt flash. At about 3,000rpm and light throttle openings a tapping noise from the exhaust side of the engine is easily audible.

If you keep your foot at over 60% throttle you dont hear the noise and the PFC engine knock level is normal...its only when you back off to change gear that there is a quick succession of tapping noise (Im assuming it is piscking up the mechanical noise, its not detonation)

So i want to do it myself, so if you could post up a bit of a DIY check and service of lifters.

The engine is a Jap import motor with only about 500kms on it since it was installed. It was running ok until a plug gave up the ghost and the ignition was missing badly for a lap or two at the track. I pitted, changed the plugs and went back out and the ignition miss was better.

Next morning at the track after a full tilt in 4th gear from about 4,800-7,000rpm for about 5 seconds (coming out of turn 2 at Phillip Island flat on the throttle up to brakes for Honda, engine light came on just as i was about to start braking) It was then that the tapping noise started....So thats the whole story.

I think im on the right track with an exhaust lifter, if you can think of anything else im happy to hear it.

[wrxhoon]

Thanks for the heads up, ill give him a try in the morning.

Well on cold start it makes  brief tapping noise, about 1-2 seconds. Cold , warm it doesnt matter i can drive along at under 2800rpm with any throttle position and th eengine doesnt maek any noise, and the PFC engine light doesnt flash. At about 3,000rpm and light throttle openings a tapping noise from the exhaust side of the engine is easily audible.  

If you keep your foot at over 60% throttle you dont hear the noise and the PFC engine knock level is normal...its only when you back off to change gear that there is a quick succession of tapping noise (Im assuming it is piscking up the mechanical noise, its not detonation)

So i want to do it myself, so if you could post up a bit of a DIY check and service of lifters.  

The engine is a Jap import motor with only about 500kms on it since it was installed. It was running ok until a plug gave up the ghost and the ignition was missing badly for a lap or two at the track. I pitted, changed the plugs and went back out and the ignition miss was better.

Next morning at the track after a full tilt in 4th gear from about 4,800-7,000rpm for about 5 seconds (coming out of turn 2 at Phillip Island flat on the throttle up to brakes for Honda, engine light came on just as i was about to start braking) It was then that the tapping noise started....So thats the whole story.

I think im on the right track with an exhaust lifter, if you can think of anything else im happy to hear it.

are you sure its a lifter and not big and bearings ? if its a lifter it should do it more when cold big ends you will hear it more when hot ( thin oil ) cause when cold the oil takes up the slack ( thick oil ) , i hope its a lifter or 2 and not bearings .

anyway this is how you bleed hydrolic lifters : take them out put one at the time in oil ( it must be upright , hole on top and totaly covered in oil ) then you need a thin strong wire , thin enough to fit in the hole , while holding the lifter upright and totaly covered in oil push the wire in the hole hard so you push the valve down and with pumping action ( pushing down and leting it come up again ) keeep going until no more bubbles come out ( very tiny bubbles ) , when no more bubbles come out thats it they are done . to make sure they are ok push down on them very hard they shouldnt move down at all if they do they either got air in them or they stuffed . after bleeding them make sure you dont lie them on their side , keep them upright always .

good luck and if you want to know more just ask but it sounds like bad news i'm afraid to say .

[ylwgtr2]

when you say engine light....do you mean the yellow check engine light?

[Roy]

Yeh its the check engine light, i am running a Power Fc and the flickering of the engine light corresponds when the knock indicator goes crazy...so its picking up the mechanical noise.

I thought about bottom end but stone cold it does it, warm it does it?!?!?! It seems to be audible from the top end more then the bottom end.

But you are right the load thing corresponding with the knocking/tapping noise suggests a bottom end bearing, and also the pace of the tapping. Cams only spin at half the rpm of the crank and the pace of the tapping noise sounds too quick to perhaps be a lifter.

Another scary fact is that the mechanics installed the engine with a big dent in the sump, my concern is that it could restrict flow around the pick up?!?!?! They say th edent is purely cosmetic?!?!?!?!

So there is plenty of reason to suspect a bottom end, but the noise does appear to be coming from the exhaust side of the head. Also the pitch of the knocking/tapping doesnt sound right for a big end.

Oil pressure seems fine, i would have thought if it was a bottom end problem, then by the times its audible i would have thought that oil pressure might be suffering by then...

Mmmm...so many variables, i think its best to start with the lifters and go from there.

[Roy]

Oh...another thing about the speed of the tapping noise. It would seem to be quicker then the rpm of the crank would allow, so likely to be several lifters....suppose the same could be said for a number of bottom end bearings...more then anything its the pitch of the sound that makes me thing lifters, its mroe a tapping noise then a knocking noise...that combined with my earllier mentioned observation re oil pressure

[GTRgeoff]

Always hard to pick mate but I have the stethoscope ready if you need it. Really.

[wrxhoon]

Oh...another thing about the speed of the tapping noise. It would seem to be quicker then the rpm of the crank would allow, so likely to be several lifters....suppose the same could be said for a number of bottom end bearings...more then anything its the pitch of the sound that makes me thing lifters, its mroe a tapping noise then a knocking noise...that combined with my earllier mentioned observation re oil pressure

you must be good to be able to tell the speed of the tapping noise .i wouldt go much on the speed of it , its easy to tell if its lifters or bearings , if you cant tell yourself take it to a workshop they will be able to tell you and so would i if i heard it . if iots a bearing it will get a lot worse and fairly quick too , it will stuff up your crank as well , so try to identify it fairly quick .

are you sure its just as loud when stone cold ? my guess is it would be quiter and the hotter it gets the louder it gets . how long sinse it started ?

you can have a stuffed bearing and still have plenty oil pressure .

what about if no 6 big end is gone ( thats the one that usualy goes ) and the piston hits the cil head ? then the noise will be on the top as well as bottom end .

roy i hope that its not a bearing , lifters are a lot cheaper than a total rebuild .

[Roy]

Ive had 2 cars that have done bottom ends, and only one engine with a noisy lifter. Would a high idle suggest a problem? If i disconnect the idle control valve it idles like a champion, only when plugged in it idles about 300rpm then the PFc setting. I dont think the issue is related.

There is absolutely no difference in the loudness whether cold or at operating temp. My only cncern if its a lifter, why doesnt it do it all the time, why is ut rpm and to a lesser extent load dependant

[DoughBoy]

What if it's just a couple of sticky lifters from the motor sitting around for so long? Give it an oilchange w/some additive, might clear itself up with use?

p.s. you're so cursed!

[ylwgtr2]

im pretty close to your area.....i can come take a quick look if you want my opinion

[Mik]

A lifter may be RPM dependant, but I can't see it being load (throttle) dependant