Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

I'm pretty sure that you are unable to get your car engineered with an After Market ECU. (eg. Haltech, Wolf 3D, Microtech)

So how to people go about passing the engineer with the After Market ECU ?

I heard that you can get your aftermarket ECU tested for emissions, allowing you to pass it in engineering, but apparently this is very very expensive ($4,000)

I was thinking maybe to hide the After Market ECU somewhere else in the car, and go get the car engineered. Leaving the standard ECU in the foot well. And see if I get the car passed. Has anyone tried this ? did it work ?

If I can't get it passed. My Next question, do you think I will be able to start my car with the standard ECU with most of the sensors removed ?

As I'm in the process of putting a RB25 NEO into my VL, all the wiring hidden, and most of sensors will be removed, like the transaction control throttle body, boost control, knock sensor. It will still have the oil sensors, water temp, MAF sensor, OS sensor, just the bare basic's

Sorry about the long Thread, Thanks in advance

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/51121-engineering-with-aftermarket-ecu/
Share on other sites

I don't think they have an emmissions test cell in the Act. So I suspect that all they will do for an engine swap inspection is check the numbers and make sure that nothing is stolen. Since you are putting a much "cleaner" current generation 2.5 litre engine in car that came with a 1986 "dirtier" 3 litre engine, I don't think there will be a problem.

Best answer, ask the inspectors what they will be checking.

Talk to a signatory or the relevant inspector that passes this sort of thing.

I have heard various theories about engineering ECU's but i'm not going to repeat any because it's all heresay and therefore may be misleading.

In any case my recommendation is that you don't play swapsies to get through engineering. Personally I can't see why anyone would ever do this. If you are going to go to the effort and cost of having something engineered, you might as well get all the mods signed off then and there so its all above board and you minimise the risk of problems later on (eg insurance or defects). Otherwise my view is that you are leaving yourself open to be liable because the car you are driving is effectively not road legal.

I will be speaking to an engineer later this afternoon about getting my engine swap engineered and will ask him then. I have had an emissions test done on my last car before it was engineered, and the rta dude said that it would be fine once I get the car to pass the emissions test. However without the car actually passing an emissions test before I sold it, I can't confirm this.

However, would an engineer check for an aftermarket computer?? I have had my R34 fully engineered in the past and the engineer didn't even consider it!

I have recieved feedback from a Engineer in NSW, saying that they wont pass a aftermarket ECU.

I will contact some Engineer's in ACT and check with them

It's going in a VL Commondoor, so the "standard" VL ECU won't work. It's an RB25DET NEO engine, they were never emmisions tested here as they weren't sold here. So what isn't an "aftermarket" ECU in this case? The VL ECU is "aftermarket" to the engine and the RB25DET ECU is "aftermarket" to the VL.

So you have to ask the question of the engineer correctly, don't ask "is an aftermarket ECU OK?" Ask "which of the two ECU's do you suggest?" Since neither will work, then he has to say aftermarket is OK as long as it passes the emmmisions test.

Whether or not it passes the emmisions test is the real question, it shouldn't matter how you get there. :D

It's going in a VL Commondoor, so the "standard" VL ECU won't work. It's an RB25DET NEO engine, they were never emmisions tested here as they weren't sold here. So what isn't an "aftermarket" ECU in this case? The VL ECU is "aftermarket" to the engine and the RB25DET ECU is "aftermarket" to the VL.

The ECU is considered to be part of the engine, as is the exhaust, intake tract, fuel tank and any pollution devices. So the "standard" ECU is the one that comes with the engine from the factory.

Whether or not it passes the emmisions test is the real question, it shouldn't matter how you get there.

I agree but in reality it depends on the engineer and how they interpret the ADR's. I have heard the arguement that the adjustable nature of an aftermarket ECU means some engineers will never allow one to be passed because of the way they read the rules.

If he knows it's there he should be interested because the ECU impacts on emissions.

But an aftermarket ecu also tuned properly can pass emmision tests.

But i see your point as the tune can be easily altered after passing the test. So how does the engineering report cover this issue?

The ECU is considered to be part of the engine, as is the exhaust, intake tract, fuel tank and any pollution devices. So the "standard" ECU is the one that comes with the engine from the factory.

I agree but in reality it depends on the engineer and how they interpret the ADR's. I have heard the arguement that the adjustable nature of an aftermarket ECU means some engineers will never allow one to be passed because of the way they read the rules.

What if the RB25DET he is using is from an auto, then he can't use the "standard ECU". VL ECU's are tunable anyway, so if he could use one of those he would be able to tune it just like any aftermarket ECU. Even LS1 ECU's are tunable these days (via LS1 EDIT) , does that mean you can't engineer a Commondoor with a standard one of those?

You are right, it unltimately depends on the engineer. But it also depends on how you approach the problem with them as well. :D

But an aftermarket ecu also tuned properly can pass emmision tests.  

But i see your point as the tune can be easily altered after passing the test. So how does the engineering report cover this issue?

The engineering report is done as at the time the car was presented. It is exactly the same as turning up with standard wheels and then swapping then over later. When he checked it, it passed that's why the engineeering report is timed and dated. :D

So an engineers report is basically the same as a bodgy roadworthy!! :D

Well no, it is a little more detailed and requires considerably more knowledge and testing. But what else can the poor engineer be expected to do, follow you around and make sure you don't change anything? :headspin:

Disclaimer: I am just arguing here because i'm an engineer and I like to argue. What i'm actually saying might be completely incorrect.

What if the RB25DET he is using is from an auto, then he can't use the "standard ECU". VL ECU's are tunable anyway, so if he could use one of those he would be able to tune it just like any aftermarket ECU. Even LS1 ECU's are tunable these days (via LS1 EDIT) , does that mean you can't engineer a Commondoor with a standard one of those?

If I was a signatory I would argue thus...

If the RB25 he is using is an auto he needs to use the auto ECU. If he wants to use a manual he needs to use a manual ECU. Otherwise he could prove the auto and manual maps are identical and use either.

I would argue that it is not only the physical box that constitutes an ECU but also the factory maps. Therefore if you change the maps from factory, you are no longer emissions compliant until you prove otherwise.

I don't know anything about modern commodores, is LS1 EDIT released, supported and endorsed by Holden?

I will contact my local engineer to get another perspective.

SK do they have a prob with RB30DET's not being a factory option ? Most are probably not aware if it looks factory and evaprative , breather etc ancilliaries are connected and working . I doubt many engineers would witness the computer , if you tell them its factory that's what the report will state .

Cheers A .

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • OK, so again it has been a bit of a break but it was around researching what had been done since I didn't have access to Neil's records and not everything is obvious without pulling stuff apart. Happily the guy who assembled the engine had kept reasonable records, so we now know the final spec is: Bottom end: Standard block and crank Ross 86.5mm forgies, 9:1 compression Spool forged rods Standard main bolts Oil pump Spool billet gears in standard housing Aeroflow extended and baffled sump Head Freshly rebuilt standard head with new 80lb valve springs Mild porting/port match Head oil feed restrictor VCT disabled Tighe 805C reground cams (255 duration, 8.93 lift)  Adjustable cam gears on inlet/exhaust Standard head bolts, gasket not confirmed but assumed MLS External 555cc Nismo injectors Z32 AFM Bosch 023 Intank fuel pump Garret 2871 (factory housings and manifold) Hypertune FFP plenum with standard throttle   Time to book in a trip to Unigroup
    • I forgot about my shiny new plates!
    • Well, apparently they do fit, however this wont be a problem if not because the car will be stationary while i do the suspension work. I was just going to use the 16's to roll the old girl around if I needed to. I just need to get the E90 back on the road first. Yes! I'm a believer! 🙌 So, I contacted them because the site kinda sucks and I was really confused about what I'd need. They put together a package for me and because I was spraying all the seat surfaces and not doing spot fixes I decided not to send them a headrest to colour match, I just used their colour on file (and it was spot on).  I got some heavy duty cleaner, 1L of colour, a small bottle of dye hardener and a small bottle of the dye top coat. I also got a spray gun as I needed a larger nozzle than the gun I had and it was only $40 extra. From memory the total was ~$450 ish. Its not cheap but the result is awesome. They did add repair bits and pieces to the quote originally and the cost came down significantly when I said I didn't need any repair products. I did it over a weekend. The only issues I had were my own; I forgot to mix the hardener into the dye two coats but I had enough dye for 2 more coats with the hardener. I also just used up all the dye because why not and i rushed the last coat which gave me some runs. Thankfully the runs are under the headrests. The gun pattern wasn't great, very round and would have been better if it was a line. It made it a little tricky to get consistent coverage and I think having done the extra coats probably helped conceal any coverage issues. I contacted them again a few months later so I could get our X5 done (who the f**k thought white leather was a good idea for a family car?!) and they said they had some training to do in Sydney and I could get a reduced rate on the leather fix in the X5 if I let them demo their product on our car. So I agreed. When I took Bec in the E39 to pick it up, I showed them the job I'd done in my car and they were all (students included) really impressed. Note that they said the runs I created could be fixed easily at the time with a brush or an air compressor gun. So, now with the two cars done I can absolutely recommend Colourlock.  I'll take pics of both interiors and create a new thread.
    • Power is fed to the ECU when the ignition switch is switched to IGN, at terminal 58. That same wire also connects to the ECCS relay to provide both the coil power and the contact side. When the ECU sees power at 58 it switches 16 to earth, which pulls the ECCS relay on, which feeds main power into the ECU and also to a bunch of other things. None of this is directly involved in the fuel pump - it just has to happen first. The ECU will pull terminal 18 to earth when it wants the fuel pump to run. This allows the fuel pump relay to pull in, which switches power on into the rest of the fuel pump control equipment. The fuel pump control regulator is controlled from terminal 104 on the ECU and is switched high or low depending on whether the ECU thinks the pump needs to run high or low. (I don't know which way around that is, and it really doesn't matter right now). The fuel pump control reg is really just a resistor that controls how the power through the pump goes to earth. Either straight to earth, or via the resistor. This part doesn't matter much to us today. The power to the fuel pump relay comes from one of the switched wires from the IGN switch and fusebox that is not shown off to the left of this page. That power runs the fuel pump relay coil and a number of other engine peripherals. Those peripherals don't really matter. All that matters is that there should be power available at the relay when the key is in the right position. At least - I think it's switched. If it's not switched, then power will be there all the time. Either way, if you don't have power there when you need it (ie, key on) then it won't work. The input-output switching side of the relay gains its power from a line similar (but not the same as) the one that feeds the ECU. SO I presume that is switched. Again, if there is not power there when you need it, then you have to look upstream. And... the upshot of all that? There is no "ground" at the fuel pump relay. Where you say: and say that pin 1 Black/Pink is ground, that is not true. The ECU trigger is AF73, is black/pink, and is the "ground". When the ECU says it is. The Blue/White wire is the "constant" 12V to power the relay's coil. And when I say "constant", I mean it may well only be on when the key is on. As I said above. So, when the ECU says not to be running the pump (which is any time after about 3s of switching on, with no crank signal or engine speed yet), then you should see 12V at both 1 and 2. Because the 12V will be all the way up to the ECU terminal 18, waiting to be switched to ground. When the ECU switches the fuel pump on, then AF73 should go to ~0V, having been switched to ground and the voltage drop now occurring over the relay coil. 3 & 5 are easy. 5 is the other "constant" 12V, that may or may not be constant but will very much want to be there when the key is on. Same as above. 3 goes to the pump. There should never be 12V visible at 3 unless the relay is pulled in. As to where the immobiliser might have been spliced into all this.... It will either have to be on wire AF70 or AF71, whichever is most accessible near the alarm. Given that all those wires run from the engine bay fusebox or the ECU, via the driver's area to the rear of the car, it could really be either. AF70 will be the same colour from the appropriate fuse all the way to the pump. If it has been cut and is dangling, you should be able to see that  in that area somewhere. Same with AF71.   You really should be able to force the pump to run. Just jump 12V onto AF72 and it should go. That will prove that the pump itself is willing to go along with you when you sort out the upstream. You really should be able to force the fuel pump relay on. Just short AF73 to earth when the key is on. If the pump runs, then the relay is fine, and all the power up to both inputs on the relay is fine. If it doesn't run (and given that you checked the relay itself actually works) then one or both of AF70 and AF71 are not bringing power to the game.
    • @PranK can you elaborate further on the Colorlock Dye? The website has a lot of options. I'm sure you've done all the research. I have old genuine leather seats that I have bought various refurbing creams and such, but never a dye. Any info on how long it lasts? Does it wash out? Is it a hassle? What product do I actually need? Am I just buying this kit and following the steps the page advises or something else? https://www.colourlockaustralia.com.au/colourlock-leather-repair-kit-dye.html
×
×
  • Create New...