Aftermarket ECU Dillemma

[blacky]

Hey all,

Not sure if this is the right section for this,its the closest i think, admins plz move if its not

My R32 i bought at auction in Japan has a HKS PFC-FCON fuel computer. This is great, but i'm a bit concerned over its legality - i know theyre illegal full stop for road cars, and insurance is impossible.

The way it is mounted shows it clearly to anyone, as its bolted to the passanger kickpanel. So i'm thinking i can

a) try and move it under the carpet or hide it behind the kick (is this where factory ECUs are?)

B) remove it (bad option, as boost is wound up)

c) gut a factory ecu and hide the FCON in that. Is this doable?

what would you recommend i do? Hiding it is the best option, but in the case of a big insurance claim, they'll find it and i'd be ****ed.

blacky

[confuzion]

if you can fit it into a stock nissan ecu shell that would be good, i know how you feel, when i had my ae86 with haltech ecu it was quite daunting seeing cops around, if they stickered me id be rooted as there was no way i could go back to a stock ecu (turbo setup)

If you cant fit it into a stock ecu shell just hide it as best as you can, like waay up in the dash somewhere, they wont find it!

[pinoi_boi_r33]

um aren't fcon's like half piggy backs? if piggy back gutting stock ecu is no go. new compliance laws says everything must be stock, good luck hiding it.

[Parag0n]

Fcon V is piggy, Fcon V PRO is standalone

[blacky]

ahhh, i never knew fcons could be piggy back. It looks like an old unit, so im leaning towards piggy? that would explain why its just been stuck on the kickpanel instead of in the ecu's place. check out the pic (i know it doesnt show heaps) and tell me what you think.

if its a piggyback, i'll just pop it out for compliance/pits then boom, back in. (then out again if i have an accident... )

[pinoi_boi_r33]

thanks for the info paragon

[666DAN]

This is great, but i'm a bit concerned over its legality - i know theyre illegal full stop for road cars, and insurance is impossible.

In QLD they're legal as long as they don't make the emissions worse than factory settings, as for insurance, Justcars will insure you with an aftermarket computer.

[Evo_Lee]

F-Con V can be run as a standalone or piggyback, just like the newer SA and SZ.

F-Con V Pro can only be run as standalone.

Before you take out the F-Con V make sure you really have a factory ECU, also you can't just disconnect the F-Con V without looping the signals back to the factory ECU due to the wiring. You'll need a loop connector.

When your done with compliance ditch the F-Con V unless your not going to tune the car again. I reckon no tuner in Aust will be able to tune the F-Con V because they don't have such an old software. I recently changed out my F-Con V for a F-Con SA, straight swap...same harness. So much more control with a larger map (16x24) vs the old F-Con V (8x16). HKS F-Con V Pro is 32x32 but alot more stuffing around with the sensors and you'd only go for the larger map if your gonna tune 600ps or more.

[blacky]

thx evo_lee, very helpful.

so then i'm thinking mine is just an F-CON V? only because of the way its mounted...(ie hooking up to the factory ECU?)

I think the only reason i'd be taking out the fcon is for pits/compliance - i'll definitely just put it straight back in to get the car running well again. I cant see my self swapping it over or even tuning it, i'd rather just leave it the way it is and not spend any more $.

where would i find a loop connector, or is it a matter of making one up?

blacky

[Evo_Lee]

Blacky,

Since it's located outside, unbolt the screws and remove the bracket. Then hide the F-Con under the front passenger carpet up front, that's where most people keep it if you don't have it mounted in the open.

You can make a loop connector but you'll need a F-Con V pin out drawing. I'll see if I can check the one I borrowed off my mechanic.

[Evo_Lee]

Didn't see the pic before, that's a mightly old ECU. Notice it's called PFC F-Con. Then came the F-Con V, then F-Con S, V-Pro and SZ/SA.

SZ/SA is basically the same as S but allows the F-Con Navigator to be connected for home tuners, same as V-Pro. On the V you can only monitor, no fuel and ignition settings.

I also can't believe J-Customs didn't take the flare before the car was shipped.

[blacky]

yeah it looks pretty dated hey, definitely late 80's/early 90's.. am very interested to see what sort of tune its actually running. For a bit of background, i'd say the computer has been put in to accomodate the IHI turbo. What came first the ecu or turbo i'm not sure, but apparently it is a very, very quick machine due to the uprated turbo.

so anyway, its possible that this could be one of the first F-CON's? I'll do my best to hide it, but the thought of having my insurance nulled due to it is plaguing me somewhat... will wait till it gets here and see what can be done (the pic is pre shipping, so the flare is still there)

so how does the SA go Evo? are you tuning it yourself via the navigator? Sounds nice, HKS is usually pretty good.

( for the help btw)

[Evo_Lee]

It's old but not that old, as HKS USA were still selling them on their website 18months ago IIRC.

The HKS F-Con V is at least 6 years old. What you could do is find out how much power the HKS CPU is making and borrow a Navigator and check the fuel and ignition settings. Then sell it as a ROM CPU like MINES as you can't tune them.

SA is a Super Autobacs version but there is no difference to the SZ, don't ask why cause even they don't know. As I said has a larger map, built in EIDS, SLD, FCD etc so you can remove all the excessive addittional units which a F-Con V would need. With the Navigator obviously it allows you to tune the car yourself, but if your not experienced ask for advise or get a shop to tune it for you. The Evo was tuned with the PC. I also have the Navigator so I can trace faults more easily and incase I ever sell the car, the next owner can do their own tuning.

[blacky]

So from what you've said, mine is definitely a piggyback & unprogrammable? Thats fine by me, as long as the car runs well. But I cant really understand how a non-programmable ECU could get the most out of a modified car... i mean, it only seems like a bit of an insurance policy for when you up the boost level. I understand how its better than running a stock ECU. Would i be right in saying that all the non-programmable fuel ECU's (like mine) do is dump way more fuel than normal to stop the engine leaning out?

(that being said, i'm glad its in there )

[aybee]

Blacky,

as long as you tell just cars (or whoever) that you have this then your insurance will be fine.

it is programmable but only one place can do it here and its expensive.

and you will need a tune when the car arrives, so you will have to ditch the fcon and get a powerfc or something. reason for this is that you dont know what its been tuned for. example: a mate and myself imported modified 32s at almost the same time. his arrived running very lean and mine arrived running very rich. also our fuel is crap compared to the japs so have to be more conservative.

so all in all, sorry to burst your bubble but you will have to spend more $$ and possibly a bit depending on whats wrong. thats basically what happens when you import a modified car. i learnt the hard way, cause i had to go way over budget to get my car where it is and its still going 1.5 years later... next time just buy a stocker

[aybee]

oh and Evo, my car arrived with the flare and the compliers took it out. i asked for it back when i picked it up and they gave me two.

[Evo_Lee]

So from what you've said, mine is definitely a piggyback & unprogrammable?

blacky, if you have the factory ECU there then it's a piggyback. Not unprogramable, like I said just no one will have the software for it in Aust I believe.

Thats fine by me, as long as the car runs well. But I cant really understand how a non-programmable ECU could get the most out of a modified car... i mean, it only seems like a bit of an insurance policy for when you up the boost level. I understand how its better than running a stock ECU.  

(that being said, i'm glad its in there )

An upgrade ROM ECU like a MINES is an ECU which is already been tuned but cannot be tune by the owner. With the ECU will be a list of modifications which should be performed to the car to get the most out of the aftermarket ECU. Similarly when you buy an F-Con there is already like MINES a tuned base map installed, plug it in and you'll get at least 20-30ps increase depending on the car.

Would i be right in saying that all the non-programmable fuel ECU's (like mine) do is dump way more fuel than normal to stop the engine leaning out?

Dumping more fuel does not stop you from leaning out, it all depends on how much boost you run. Which will be controlled by the aftermarket ECU unless you have an EBC.

and you will need a tune when the car arrives, so you will have to ditch the fcon and get a powerfc or something. reason for this is that you dont know what its been tuned for. example: a mate and myself imported modified 32s at almost the same time. his arrived running very lean and mine arrived running very rich. also our fuel is crap compared to the japs so have to be more conservative.  

and if the car had a PowerFC you could tell what was on it? Same with the F-Con you will need either the PC or handheld to read the data.

People think Japan has better fuel, but I've questioned the local gasoline stands, both ENEOS and ESSO have informed me and positive the high octane fuel is 100 Octane only! Not 105 Octane as most people know it. Howvever there could be a difference in how the Japanese rate the fuel to how we (Aust) rate the fuel, up the boost and check for knocking. If Australia gets the rumoured 101 Octane then we may have better fuel than Japan.

Difference I've have found with JDM cars and an equivalent export or Aussie delivered car making less power is mainly due to a more restrictive CAT required to be fitted to comply with the country's emission and the factory ECU (on some cars).