Gettign sued...?

[Pva_Glue]

In hypothetical situation when some one Organises a cruise, during the cruise accident happened and some one got killed...

and their parents, partner etc..etc... sueing the organiser?!?!?

on the cruise map it states that "such such club is not responsible on anything befor, during and after cruise.

who is responsible?!?

Do you think it is possible to sue organiser or club from this?

or who's responsiblity to look after everyone cruise? it it organiser? or club? or it's depends on each individual...

I want to hear your thoughts...

and is there should be warnning agreements etc..etc. even let drivers to get signed so they cant sue (that's bit extream) but cant be never careful these dayz...

me think we should have proper set up on agreements...

cheers

Joe

[71LLA]

It's definitely a scenario that could eventuate in todays society. I am in a 4WD club and as we are an incorporated body and we have liability insurance, club members are covered for such an eventuality if they were leading a club trip at the time. I am also a member of a few 4WD mailing lists and this topic has been brought up several times regarding the personal liability if you were the one to suggest and lead a trip, particularly given that you have no idea of the competency of any of the participants on the trip.

Indemnity forms and waivers are not worth the effort due to the current state of the legal system. I have heard (never confirmed) that for an indemnity waiver to be valid in must be presented to the signatory at least 28 days in advance of an event so that they have sufficient time to seek legal advice before signing and participating. They must also be specifically advised to seek legal advice. These lawyers are just on a constant winner aren't they!

Steve

[Boostzor]

Yep i think ure right about that disclaimer there 71LLA. I dont think that SAU would be liable purely for the fact that we are not actually a club yet and therefore a group of individuals that happen to be in the same place same time.

Thing is who the hell is gonna sue SAU for damages? no1 is really liable seeing as the so called "organiser" just makes a map and states a meeting point. None of us are actually financial members so what are they goona get out of us? worst case scenario is some idiot rammin a tree boxhead style and killin himself and the parents/family blaming us fro organising it.

Not saying ure invincible but it should be the same as on a individual level. Party 1 vs party 2 not party 1 vs SAU

[71LLA]

I think we're in agreement, although it was flagged to me on a 4WD forum that I initiated that as the initiator I may be liable for any outings organised through that forum. Indeed other forums were closed for that fact, personally I thought it was total paranoia and pandering to a system which I feel is wrong.

As for the liability of an individual who provides a map and suggests a meeting point I wouldn't know. I think that a cruise probably doesn't cause the same headaches as a 4WD trip as you will be using public gazetted roads which have laws governing their use, whereas we may be using non gazetted tracks. If someone were to organise a skid pan session by getting a group together on the roof of Towong Village with the fire hose going and something happened then I think the chances of the individual being successfully sued would be much greater. Travelling lawfully in a group on public roads shouldn't really be an issue.

[ultim8DTM5]

It is definately a possibility. I have been on several cruises where a disclaimer has been signed excusing the club and organisers of the cruise from liability. However keep in mind that contractual agreements of this kind are not binding at all.

Basically in the event of something going wrong; this usually occurs when the road rules and laws are not obeyed, which in turn throws out any use of a disclaimer. As such, liability would fall behest to the parties partaking in the illegal conduct, ie individuals. However if a person was participating in a cruise, where illegal road behaviour was encouraged eg drag racing, drifting etc, the organisers in addition to individual members would be held liable. Not only the organisers, if the club becomes fiscally an entity, or a corporation, the club itself can be liable.

Basic safeguards include a no tolerance policy on illegal behaviour, which includes public dissavowing of poor and dangerous driving to enforce the club's stance on dangerous behaviour, setting a precendent and distancing the club from the idiotic acts of individuals, and of course, public liability insurance which is not a viable alternative due to financial reasons, but the best nonetheless.

I am sure Prank's old man could shed some light on the issue, as can other members in the legal profession. I am doing contracts law next semester, so until then...

Pete.

[Boostzor]

Originally posted by 71LLA

If someone were to organise a skid pan session by getting a group together on the roof of Towong Village with the fire hose going and something happened then I think the chances of the individual being successfully sued would be much greater.  

Hmm i have an idea:rolleyes: :lol:

So basically until we become a fiscal entity we are ok. People should realise this anyway i mean who trys to sue their m8s huh:(

Is always been public knowledge that we dont condone any1 doin illegal stuff on the road wether on a cruz or not. So at the moment i reckon we'd be right.

[Pva_Glue]

Thanks for reply guys...

it seems that many people think that a word "cruise" means they can go and speed on public road or drive fast than other road users, justbehave totally tool which you would not do in normal situations. I think it's pure number of people who cruise with you as well.

I have observed many people does not follow road rules on the cruise... or try to impress other drivers ending up gutter some where... or run into each other balmming each other!

All I am saying I dont wanna see the accidents on the cruise nor getting bad rap from media due to bab behaviours on cruises.

end of the day you only wants have fun but you also need to know it's consequence...

happy cruising

cheers

Joe

[red900ss]

Even before the club is a fiscal entity individuals can be sued. Just don't condone or encourage illegal activities.

[slip]

SAU QLD will be an incorporated association soon (still sortingo out paperwork). i think the most we can do is have it in writing that any illegal actions at an SAU sanctioned event are not allowed and that the road rules must be followed at all times.

Its utterly ridiculous for me to be held liable if for instance birty went off a cliff and died because he came in too hot under brakes on a mountain run, but in this sue-fest of a society its quite possible that i could be found responsible for his death. The legal system is a joke.

i think i may have to speak to some legal professionals.

[Duncan]

This is one excellant reason to get CAMS affiliation underway. CAMS offer public liability insurance on all events organised by affiliated clubs.

Also, once a club is a registered entity, it is sued, not the people who organise something - same as a company.

[SKY031]

Originally posted by Pva_Glue

it seems that many people think that a word "cruise" means they can go and speed on public road or drive fast than other road users, justbehave totally tool which you would not do in normal situations.

Due to a select few trying to spoil cruises for everyone, we implemented a cruise 'code of conduct' for people attending R31 cruises.

It took a long time to write, and seems to cover most situations.

So far, nobody has complained about it, and it works well.

This is a copy of it.

If you attend a cruise, you are automatically bound to these guidelines.  

 

To ensure the safety of club members and other road users, we are bringing into effect (and enforcing) a set of guidelines for safe and enjoyable cruising.  

 

Definition of CRUISE - to move about without precise destination; in  

motoring and aviation, to go at a normal operating speed,  

this does not mean a RACE or a chance to act in an illegal manner..  

 

1) Parking lights (during the day) should be turned on so that we can tell if you  

are with us, or if the Skyline/ Pintara  ahead/behind is with the group or not.  

If you leave the cruise, turn your lights off so that people don’t follow you.  

 

2) Do not pass the designated pace car.  

The pace car and the car at the back of the pack will be in constant radio contact in order to keep the group together.  

Do not speed to catch up to the front group of cars, they will wait.  

(Some states have smaller groups and may not have radios)  

 

3) Members will not engage in behaviour that is in any way threatening or harmful to others. (In or out of the vehicles)  

 

4) Burnouts or ‘accidental loss of traction’ will not be tolerated.  

(This includes gravel surfaces, which may cause damage to other peoples cars)  

 

5) Dragging is strictly for the race-track  

 

6) Members will obey road laws at all times.  

This includes:  

· Line markings,  

· Speed limits,  

· Traffic lights,  

· Pedestrian lights,  

· Boom gates,  

· Stop/ no U-turn /no right turn/ give-way signs etc.  

· Parking signs  

 

7) If you are found to be acting in an unsafe manner, you will be warned.  

If you continue to behave in an unsafe manner, your actions will be noted and you will be asked to stop attending cruises, and your actions may be reported to the police.  

 

8) Remember that if you have club stickers on your car, you are representing the club even when you are not participating in events, and are expected to conduct yourself in a safe and orderly manner at all times.  

If this is a problem for you, then please don’t wear club stickers.  

Any reports we receive from the general public of club members acting irresponsibly will be taken very seriously, and will be dealt with accordingly.  

 

 

If you disagree with this club binding contract, then please persue other interests.  

We would love to have you all cruising with us, so please respect that, and  

enjoy the pleasure cruise and set a great name for OUR R31 Skyline Club.  

 

[ultim8DTM5]

Originally posted by Duncan

This is one excellant reason to get CAMS affiliation underway.  CAMS offer public liability insurance on all events organised by affiliated clubs.

Also, once a club is a registered entity, it is sued, not the people who organise something - same as a company.

werd.

[Guest Boxhead]

what about the good old eveyrone not involved flees accident and we deny they ever existed?? haha.. just kidding.. anyway

wel i find out ridiculous that soemone could get sued on the pt that it was part of the cruise, to me, if the single car from the cruise was doing the same thing at the same time, those other cars dont make a difference so the crash would have occured anyway.

im tempted to sue whoever organised that bbq/ cruise when i crashed my car through a fence..

oh wait, it was me..

jokes aside and when it all comes down to it, were just a group of inviduals who have a common interest... that is one argument for not atcually making club official...

[R31Heaven]

Laywers dont need any reason to sue these days we live in a society of litigation and if any reason can be found, one will be.

[dAVE]

well from all my hard studying at uni i think that the club or an individual could be sued if they were deemed to be negligent.

The way I see to get around this is that we would have to have a code of conduct (similar to r31 club) and the organisers of the cruise would have to follow them. If it could be proven that SAU was negligent (in the fact that they didnt enforce those rules etc, or encouraged illegal behaviour) then I think it would be quite possible that the club could be sued. Same with individuals. If you do something stupid on a cruise it causes an accident, then you could be personally sued.

dave

p.s - that could all be wrong, but i think its kind of correct

[Gradenko]

Originally posted by Boostzor

Thing is who the hell is gonna sue SAU for damages?  

I know of one toss-monkey who thinks its real cool threating to sue people if things aren't going their way. If, as I suspect, being a moron is passed on genetically, then theres a good chance their parents would sue if their braindead spawn was to kill themselves while on a cruise. Its sad, but some assclowns think they're in the US, land of frivolous law suits.

[R33_Cam]

Originally posted by Gradenko

but some assclowns think they're in the US, land of frivolous law suits.

Australia is heading in the direction that the US is in now, where anyone will sue anyone for anything (you looked at me the wrong way, im gonna sue you for stress) its a joke over there.

Cam :shake:

[predator]

Yeah, **** the united states and their law system, especially with what they have been doing lately around the world.

These days it appears if you're stupid you can sue somebody for being stupid which just seems wrong to me. Reverse Evolution sucks!

But I could imagine it would all be possible, and some weeners think their own stupidity should be rewarded. Some massive outcry over "hotted up" cars cruising around causing accidents. Can never be too careful.

[Guest GR33DyMANGO]

Originally posted by Gradenko

I know of one toss-monkey who thinks its real cool threating to sue people if things aren't going their way. If, as I suspect, being a moron is passed on genetically, then theres a good chance their parents would sue if their braindead spawn was to kill themselves while on a cruise. Its sad, but some assclowns think they're in the US, land of frivolous law suits.

pipe down chorus boy.

the only dead spawn around here is that that your dad left in your arse last night:)

[deesh]

settle down fellas.

Anyway, PVA you work for lawyers dont you? Im sure with a quick question, they will be able to tell you.