RB20DET Issues

[BHDave]

Posting the same diagram isn't going to help, Grab a multimeter and go and check it. You will notice 2 plugs coming off the box that houses the tps, one is the throttle valve which is off or on as you have posted a digram for and one is the tps (a variable signal funnily enough) which you have missed altogether.

The problem with refering back to workshop manuals without actually knowing what your talking about is you tend to get it wrong.

[The Dan]

Posting the same diagram isn't going to help, Grab a multimeter and go and check it. You will notice 2 plugs coming off the box that houses the tps, one is the throttle valve which is off or on as you have posted a digram for and one is the tps (a variable signal funnily enough) which you have missed altogether.

The problem with refering back to workshop manuals without actually knowing what your talking about is you tend to get it wrong.

Before making reference to what you think I do and don't know...how about you go back and read exactly what I typed and then look carefully at both pictures. You will notice the first one which was for the throttle valve switch, you replied by saying that it was in fact the sensor that I wanted or was refering to. You will also notice the second picture which is, in fact, of the TPS. Then, here's the exciting part, when you look carefully....you see that I said YOU WERE RIGHT and I WAS MISTAKEN. I hope the letters were big enough for you to read and please don't assume that I know nothing as I simply misread the manual when I read it the first time.

[BHDave]

Before making reference to what you think I do and don't know...how about you go back and read exactly what I typed and then look carefully at both pictures. You will notice the first one which was for the throttle valve switch, you replied by saying that it was in fact the sensor that I wanted or was refering to. You will also notice the second picture which is, in fact, of the TPS. Then, here's the exciting part, when you look carefully....you see that I said YOU WERE RIGHT and I WAS MISTAKEN. I hope the letters were big enough for you to read and please don't assume that I know nothing as I simply misread the manual when I read it the first time.

Sorry mate, i got it wrong.

My appologies. Turns out i cant read.

[Cubes]

Isn't that nice.

:inlove:

[BHDave]

Once again, sorry about that.

I thought you had reposted the original diagram and sarcastically stated that i was right and you were wrong (fairly typical of some of the people on NS.com) which pissed me off as i thought you were attacking my knowledge so i returned the favour.

Sorry again.

Dave

[Deli Rep]

K guys, when you're done making up..... (jokes)

I did a lotta stuffing around with knock sensors igniter modules, discovered F**k all.... Did some more toying with timing and stumbled across a massive improvement.

Until now my crank angle sensor has been sitting in almost 'fully advanced' position, but only been showing about 15deg with a timing light, and the whole thing of hugely retarded under load as you've read already.

I know it immediately seems as if that's obviously the problem (CAS positioned fully advanced) but it was showing very reasonable moderate timing none the less. No-one had moved it because it was showing a decent amount of timing and the only direction left to turn it was anti-clockwise or more retarded... yes?

Anyway, out of curiosity/frustration/boredom we loosend it off and turned it (anti-clockwise) to about centre, tightened it up and took it for a lap of the block.

Much to my surprise there was instantly MUCH more bottom end response, power and pull...

Not knowing where the timing was actually at (no timing light) meant taking it a little easy, but it was clear there was huge change.

Today, back on the dyno it's making 170rwkw with about 17psi (fluctuating bleed valve gayness) only spiking as lean as low 12's afr and ramping on very hard.... from 40kw @ 60kph to 140kw @ 100kph then on up to 170kw.

But, at idle timing is showing 30deg with 20deg under load.... I'm confused???

I understand that previously it may have been so advanced the knock sensors were making the ecu back timing off to 10deg retard under load for engine safety sake, but it doesn't change the fact that we turned it nearly halfway anti-clockwise and now it's showing double the timing at idle?

Is there something playing silly buggers with me? can some part or area be giving false readings? I mean we're talking about markings etched into pulley wheels that have key ways to ensure they only go on in one position, how can there be any discrepency?

I'm stoked... it's nearly all sorted, but I'm spewin cos I'm confused as!

[Cubes]

Idle and its showing higher than 15degree's.

Is your TPS adjusted correctly?

[R31 POWER]

Who did the timing belt?maybe it's out by some teeth?Are both of the knock sensors plugged in.

[NewKleer]

any chance the ecu is consult capable? would help the cause tremendously as u can then reset ecu, then log rpm/afm/timing and easily notice any drop in timing when the knock sensor registers a knock and puts in on the heaps retarded map. if its tuned ecu, then perhaps this retarded map is indeed retarded (pun intended) - ie perhaps the fuel map if there is a seperate knock fuel map, is a really lean map and thus there is your problem.

this of course doesnt help if the static ignition timing isnt right (the ecu tune probably would not have accounted for far advanced static ignition timing, so maybe that is a further issue.

[Deli Rep]

Cam timing has been checked and double checked...... no teeth out, all sweet.

TPS..... how does one tell exactly where "right" is?

Consult Plug..... unfortunately not. apparently the early models (mine 89) do not have the plug, tho i REALLY wish they did.

Knock sensors are back in fine.

EBC goes on monday, hopefully improves things a bit, then just some fine tuning for those last few kw and safeness.

"If it works, why fix it?"

the timing is happy where it is, I just don't understand.

[Cubes]

I assumed you said your idle was reading higher than 15degree's via the consult hence the ecu's map. ???

The timing light you are using could be dodgy. Some RB's double pulse showing strange readings on the harmonic balancer.

[NewKleer]

consult would still only read assuming that static ignition timing is correct (it has no way to know if its not). if u didnt have remapped ecu then id just try pick up an ecu from a 91+ r32 if this is compatible, then u can wire a consult plug in (just get one from wreckers, might not even charge u for it). but depends how much u want consult (but its very useful), and whether theres any other issues with it

[The Dan]

I have an early 90 model series 1 that has a consult plug. They all should have it.

[NewKleer]

no they shouldnt as consult wasnt finalised and implemented by the time the early r32's were being made mid 89.

[Oosh]

I have an '89 GTST with a Consult plug, which i know works just fine, BUT i think mine is an October '89.

[The Dan]

I also think being a Type M has something to do with it. All of the 89 model Type M's that I have done have the consult plug. Maybe coincidance, however.

[The Dan]

K guys, when you're done making up..... (jokes)

I did a lotta stuffing around with knock sensors igniter modules, discovered F**k all.... Did some more toying with timing and stumbled across a massive improvement.

Until now my crank angle sensor has been sitting in almost 'fully advanced' position, but only been showing about 15deg with a timing light, and the whole thing of hugely retarded under load as you've read already.

I know it immediately seems as if that's obviously the problem (CAS positioned fully advanced) but it was showing very reasonable moderate timing none the less. No-one had moved it because it was showing a decent amount of timing and the only direction left to turn it was anti-clockwise or more retarded... yes?

Anyway, out of curiosity/frustration/boredom we loosend it off and turned it (anti-clockwise) to about centre, tightened it up and took it for a lap of the block.

Much to my surprise there was instantly MUCH more bottom end response, power and pull...

Not knowing where the timing was actually at (no timing light) meant taking it a little easy, but it was clear there was huge change.

Today, back on the dyno it's making 170rwkw with about 17psi (fluctuating bleed valve gayness) only spiking as lean as low 12's afr and ramping on very hard.... from 40kw @ 60kph to 140kw @ 100kph then on up to 170kw.

But, at idle timing is showing 30deg with 20deg under load.... I'm confused???

I understand that previously it may have been so advanced the knock sensors were making the ecu back timing off to 10deg retard under load for engine safety sake, but it doesn't change the fact that we turned it nearly halfway anti-clockwise and now it's showing double the timing at idle?

Is there something playing silly buggers with me? can some part or area be giving false readings? I mean we're talking about markings etched into pulley wheels that have key ways to ensure they only go on in one position, how can there be any discrepency?

I'm stoked... it's nearly all sorted, but I'm spewin cos I'm confused as!

The timing check wire, which is part of the ignition module loom, needs to have the inductive pickup on a certain way. If you turn it around it will show massively advanced and then swap it back and it will show correct timing. For some reason mine doesn't do it but every other 32 and 33 that I have ever checked does this. Also make sure you get your idle right when setting timing. Set you cam angle sensor at the half way mark, then adjust your idle down to 650-750 RPM, re-check the timing and set from there. Try to use the idle adjustment to fine tune the timing angle.