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To Dump Or Not To Dump

Bobjones

By Bobjones,
in Forced Induction Performance

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Bobjones Mentor

Bobjones

Posted
Posted (edited)

Aright people...

I have done many a search on this and its about time an actual comparison was done...to a point.

there are a couple of SPLIT dumps on the market, and I will let everyone do a search in relation to the difference in performance of the split compared to the oval dump (Covered MANY times).

I am looking to compare the CES Racing Dump Pipe and the BOS Importing one 9the question has been raise but nothing further)

I note that the picture per the CES site does not look like it would fit due to where the O2 sensor hole is and the wastegate pipe...

http://www.cesracing.com.au/images/gts-t_dump_pipe.jpg

compared to the BOS Importing Dump

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...opic=74022&st=0

Now does anyone have an ACTUAL picture of the CES Racing R33 dump pipe, I am after where the "screamer/wastegate" pipe re-enters the main pipe of the dump/front pipe. Fromt he picture it looks like this pipe is NOT for the R33 GTST, if anyone wants to confirm or deny please do so...

Also I am after what size increase over what distance is the CES Racing Dump Pipe from the back of the turbo to the full 3" pipe. I have been told that an increase in diametre over a longer distance will provide better flow...

Any help would be greatly appreciated as there is only a small difference in price as far as I am aware.

Edited by Bobjones
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SpecRPlaya Apprentice

SpecRPlaya

Posted
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Go CES dude....i recently ordered one for my s15.

To make a long story short....the CES unit has been bread with quality and performance in mind and has proven dyno results...just search the many forums on the net and u will see what i mean.

If your like me, i like to do the job once and do it right....thats why i went for the CES unit, i don't see any point in stuffing around with the cheaper copies....waste of money in my opinion.

I must say the CES unit is still quite expensive but hey, that is the price you pay for performance!

Edited by SpecRPlaya
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R33_Series2Lover Collaborator

R33_Series2Lover

Posted
Posted

SpecR in someways has a point if you want reassurance then purchase the more expensive CES item. Mostly branding and marketing makes one item more expensive than the other. Many people prefer to pay more to be reassured. . At the end of the day its what makes you happy and your personal preference. which ever dump you chose will give you healthy gains and you will do it the right way once. But hey it depends on budget and personal preference at the end of the day. I know a few people who have the BOS item and are extremely happy.

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R33_Series2Lover Collaborator

R33_Series2Lover

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Oh on the other hand though when its comes other things though like internal mods piston,cam and even non internal parts like a front mount intercooler than yes SpecR is right and go for a well known brand, but for the dump I reckon either of the two will give you good results. just my opinion as you requested everyone has a different one.

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zymotic Experienced

zymotic

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Posted

BOSI is $395 + delivery, CES is $550 + delivery both mild steel.

"Our CES Twin Dump Pipe will give great kw gains and it is a quality product. (Made here in Aust). It is designed to bolt to the front of the catalytic converter. It is painted mild steel which alone bolted on will make a gain of 22 - 24 kws !" CES Racing

"split dump/front pipe and standard CAT - 164kwrw. INCREASE of 16kwrw!" BATMBL

Give Trevor a call. Jack Beedham's can also do up a split dump if requested - they did one for me.

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Bobjones Mentor

Bobjones

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Yeah I am mates with Bobby and they do all my exhausts and mates cars as well...I am just not a Redcliffe local...

I was weighing up the price of the two and have mates who designed the original GTi-R dump for CES.

Could you PM me how much the split dump from turbo to cat was from Beedhams!!!

And to answer the other statements, yes I like doing things right the first time, that is why when #5 ring collapsed I rebuilt the whole engine with new everything except for the crank...and block obviously...

And at the end of the day the ACTUAL gain will be different on every car and CLAIMS are merely that...claims

I REALLY would like a picture of the ACTUAL CES R33 or even the R32 GTST split dump...

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RedDrifter Experienced

RedDrifter

Posted
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My brother just put one of the XS split dumps from ssautochrome onto his R32 and it has made quite a nice difference. The stock turbo is produceing quite a bit more torque and the car is definately reving harder now.

I have a split XS dump sitting at home that I am going to put on even though I have the 3" dump on the car already but its not a split one though.

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Bobjones Mentor

Bobjones

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Posted (edited)
My brother just put one of the XS split dumps from ssautochrome onto his R32 and it has made quite a nice difference.  The stock turbo is produceing quite a bit more torque and the car is definately reving harder now.

I have a split XS dump sitting at home that I am going to put on even though I have the 3" dump on the car already but its not a split one though.

Would you be able to post a pick??? ;)

EDIT: Link here

http://www.ssautochrome.com/level.itml/icOid/1531

I could not find an R33 front pipe to go with the dump...and the prices are obviously is USD people...

Edited by Bobjones
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INASNT Grand Master

INASNT

Posted
Posted

Those prices seem alright as i paid $320 for just the split dump without the front pipe section but in 304 s/s back when i had the stock turbo.

The wastegate pipe needs to be seperated atleast 30cm before rejoining the rest of the system to be any advantage with the split pipe system.

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Sydneykid Grand Master

Sydneykid

Posted
Posted

Hi guys, I have been holding back for a while on this, but it raised its ugly head in another thread so.........

The lambda sensor on the CES split dump/engine pipe is mounted upside down. This is not recommended by any lambda sensor manufacturer, they accumulate condensation and this causes failure of the lambda sensor.

This is from the Bosch lambda sensor installation manual;

Do NOT install it below the 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock position. Condensation can form in the exhaust pipe and permanently damage the sensor.

This is from the Microcraft ECU closed loop tuning manual

6. Lambda sensor use and care

Install the sensor in a minimum of 10 deg upward position to avoid the trapping of condensation in it.

Personally, I wouldn't use a dump pipe with an upside down lambda sensor mount for that reason.

;) cheers :)

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R33_Series2Lover Collaborator

R33_Series2Lover

Posted
Posted
Hi guys, I have been holding back for a while on this, but it raised its ugly head in another thread so.........

The lambda sensor on the CES split dump/engine pipe is mounted upside down.  This is not recommended by any lambda sensor manufacturer, they accumulate condensation and this causes failure of the lambda sensor.

This is from the Bosch lambda sensor installation manual;

This is from the Microcraft ECU closed loop tuning manual

Personally, I wouldn't use a dump pipe with an upside down lambda sensor mount for that reason.

  :) cheers  :)

What the hell is bosch lambda?? Aww man i was going to buy a split dump and now more issues when choosing which to buy for my stocky R33. Its making it difficult.

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Angry Proficient

Angry

Posted
Posted

f*ck paying 550 .. let alone 400 for a split dump .. i bought one that was 2.5 for 150bucks..... got back 70bucks coz it was a shit job and just didnt fit and i rebuilt it with 3inch ..and 1.5 wastegate side still for under 150bucks. refer to the link below

http://outlawconnection.com/angryaussie/si.../Image(084).jpg

got quoted by xhaust shop for one 330 if i supplied the flange for the turbo. .... neva bothered finding out about getting one .. but i wwanna make another one shortly. coz the o2 isnt in the position i would of prefered. but it hasnt failed me yet.

Matt

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zymotic Experienced

zymotic

Posted
Posted

For those of you (like me) who do not know wtf a lamda sensor is:

"The exhaust gas oxygen sensor (EGO or O2), or lambda sensor, is the key sensor in the engine fuel control feedback loop. The computer uses the O2 sensor's input to balance the fuel mixture, leaning the mixture when the sensor reads rich and richening the mixture when the sensor reads lean."

Well... it sounds pretty important doesn't it! Oh boy seems like theres a gotcha with almost anything these days. I was dead set on a full zorst from CES including split dump.

Oh Bob, I had an entire mild steel 3 inch zorst with split dump + cannon (bloody droney and loud) from Beedham for $1k. Don't know price on split alone. soz.

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Bobjones Mentor

Bobjones

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OK people, this is the response from CES themselves...note the $700 for ceramic coated...I received UNDER car pictures but really wanted a picture of BOTH of these dumps unfitted...but JUDGING by the picture on the site SK is correct about the O2 sensor position, he is also VERY correct about the sensor position...

Despite this CES claim for the full exhaust on an R33, a 40rwkw gain...the dump by ITSELF is a 20rwkw gain...bang for your buck. I might see what Beedhams can make up and maybe post that when I get a chance to actually LEAVE work...

THIS IS THE CES RESPONSE TO MY QUERY REGARDING PICTURES AND PRICES

Good afternoon Neill,

Thank you for your email enquiry.

I will anticipate you mean a R33 GTST model not GTR... (different set ups)..

CES have a Twin Dump Pipe to suit this model (R33 GTST). We have also a full send away Twin Dump Pipe Power Package (full exhaust system).. avail. as a send away package Aust. wide. *see attachments.

FULL SYSTEM FOR YOUR VEHICLE ENQUIRY.... 40+ kw GAIN (FROM STOCK) - FULL SYSTEM. (15 - 18 kw above SINGLE Dump Pipe Systems...)

BRINGS BOOST ON EARLIER...... MAKES MORE POWER...... EVERYWHERE !

Our CES Twin Dump Pipe (alone) will give great kw gains and it is a quality product. It is designed to bolt to the front of the catalytic converter.

It is painted mild steel which alone when bolted on will make a gain of 22 - 24 kws !

Twin Dump Pipe (only) - RRP $550.00 (Base Cost) mild steel painted.

HiPerCoat Aluminium-Ceramic Coating options available. Extra $150.00 (coated inside/out). *see attachments.

Please find attached our GTST general prices and information sheet full system details.

Happy to help you with any further enquiries - please telephone. If ever around Brisbane/Gold Coast visiting.. call in and view our display and many photos... or we can mail to you a brochure of our work.

We have EFTPOS facilities for your convenience (Visa, Mastercard, Bankcard).

All goods are workmanship guaranteed 12 months. (subject to normal usage).

Goods avail. in stock ready to go. Let us know.

Full system photos attached for your information.

Your questions: Our Full systems come with a quality resonator and a 3" Hi Flow Catalytic Converter American Carsound....Yes all genuine 3"... 12 month warranty...

P.S. Other results from our Twin Dump Pipe Power Packages ..other model vehicles..

Nissan S15 200SX 46 kw gains

WRX/STi Subaru e.g. 02 Sti 34 kw gains.....

Ford XR6 Turbo Utes/sedans 41 kw gains....

All bolt-on performance exhaust system ALONE.. no further mods...

(naturally further gains with tuning)...

Let us know.

Regards

Trevor Campbell

CUSTOM EXHAUST SPECIALISTS

(07)32002333 PH

(07)32002344 FAX

WEB: www.cesracing.com.au

7/9/05

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