Yay ! 212kw With Safc ! !

[JeeTeeEss25Tee]

Yoohoo! got 212kw after getting SAFC tuned with Matt (Hitman) yesterday afternoon. Very happy and even Matt was also impressed with the result. Mods are: 3" turbo back zorst, FMIC, 500hp fuel pump (I think was Walbro?) , bleed valve ($30 from forum : ) and SAFC (from ebay). Go cheap mods ! ^^

Anyway as most of you would know with the similar mods a R33 Gtst would normally push up to about high 190kw only. Therefore Matt also said that my car might have a R34 turbo in it (could be fitted back in Japan) coz a R34 gtt would be pushing a similar figure, which is another bonus for me

I couldn't tell much difference with the power since yesterday thanks to my granny shifting and the current petrol prices . . . but the result definitely gave me a big confidence to give it a go whenever I need to use it

[Cubes]

You run a pod?

The Intake temps are rather high..

Best to get those down for the summer.

[paulr33]

yeah thats some high intake temp, will definetly affect "up" the output figure as its in shootout mode, nevertheless if it feels good then its fine. did you notice much change from stock ecu to stock ecu + safc + boost ?

[JeeTeeEss25Tee]

Yeah you r both right! damn I didn't even notice that. It's because after I got my Hybrid copy cooler installed and needed to take that front bit of the air box out (in the way of the new pipe) I've got "True Flow" brand filter (similar to k&n). Anyway its almost like my filter is nearly exposed like a pod. You guys know how much temp would be reduced with a cold box installed?

[JeeTeeEss25Tee]

yeah thats some high intake temp, will definetly affect "up" the output figure as its in shootout mode, nevertheless if it feels good then its fine. did you notice much change from stock ecu to stock ecu + safc + boost ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

boost hits hard as it should be but felt abit jerky. Just like others said a safc tuned car won't drive as smooth as a power fc tuned one. But for the money I spent the power gained is defenitely worth it.

[Cubes]

You guys know how much temp would be reduced with a cold box installed?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you had a true cai that doesn't suck any air from the engine bay, you would drop your intake temps to the same as ambient.

Thats a drop of 27degree's and thats on a dyno with constant airflow.

Sitting in traffic on a 40degree day.. Ouch if you should put the pedal to the metal.

The R33 having an upside down airbox makes this difficult.

Edited September 10, 2005 by Cubes

[JeeTeeEss25Tee]

thx for that info,. ye i guess until i got a decent cai installed have to drive like an n/a

[Cubes]

Just take it easy on the hot days and after sitting in traffic for awhile.

[justin911]

use the stock box with a k&n panel filter.

when i had my safc it ran just as smooth as the stock ecu, i dont think it should be jerky at all.

[Links]

looks good mate.. the bleed valve does an alright job.. what you running it at ~12psi.

A/F ratios are pretty good - 12's all the way..

nice work..

[WazR32GTSt]

aren't intake temps taken from the temp inside the manifold?

if so, either your FMIC isn't connected, or the tuner "turned up" the intake temp value so that it is reading higher

i read somewhere that each 10deg higher intake temp adds on 5-10kW to account for the "Apparent" changes in the atmosphere (the correction that shootout mode does)

when i had my car dynoed last, the intake temps were 15deg on a 15deg day (with FMIC).. the temp proble was palced to read at the manifold...

Warren.

[Cubes]

Warren,

The correct method is to place the dyno's air intake temp sensor in the location where the car sucks in the ambient air.

Air intake temps being so high I would suspect the bonnet was closed, a rather wise move when you think about how the safc works.

At every map location you have a fuel value and ignition value tied together.

As you run down the map the car is sucking in more air, as a result running less ignition timing and more fuel.

To lean the car out you tell the ecu it is sucking less air than it really is, as a result you use a lesser load point with a cell that has a higher ignition value and less fuel value.

Ignition timing is the killer, one very good reason to tune with the bonnet down. That way any detonation would have shown up on the dyno. Hopefully.

[Ionos]

Wouldn't it be the 'Ambient temperature' reading that would affect how Shootout alters the power figure, not the 'Intake Temperature' reading?

After all shootout is designed to compensate for variables like summer/winter, which ambient temp would indicate, not intake temp. I've heard that some less then reputable workshops will place the ambient probe behind the radiator to artifiically boost the power reading, but of course this would show up on the chart as a high AT figure. The AT looks normal on this one.

[JeeTeeEss25Tee]

Warren,

The correct method is to place the dyno's air intake temp sensor in the location where the car sucks in the ambient air.

Air intake temps being so high I would suspect the bonnet was closed, a rather wise move when you think about how the safc works.

At every map location you have a fuel value and ignition value tied together.

As you run down the map the car is sucking in more air, as a result running less ignition timing and more fuel.

To lean the car out you tell the ecu it is sucking less air than it really is, as a result you use a lesser load point with a cell that has a higher ignition value and less fuel value.

Ignition timing is the killer, one very good reason to tune with the bonnet down. That way any detonation would have shown up on the dyno. Hopefully.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow u r right cubes! Matt did have the bonnet closed. He also had the other mechanic standing near my car to hear the knocking. The car got a max run at 213 something kw but was winded down a little just to be safe. Matt is a pro, he doesnt just set the car up just to push out maximum power but rather tune it at a reasonable and safe level.

[Cubes]

Wouldn't it be the 'Ambient temperature' reading that would affect how Shootout alters the power figure, not the 'Intake Temperature' reading?

After all shootout is designed to compensate for variables like summer/winter, which ambient temp would indicate, not intake temp. I've heard that some less then reputable workshops will place the ambient probe behind the radiator to artifiically boost the power reading, but of course this would show up on the chart as a high AT figure. The AT looks normal on this one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The car doesn't ingest ambient air.. It ingests intake air.

The hotter the air the less dense it is, as a result the less power the car will make, this is where the dyno makes small adjustments.

The power figure is 'around' the mark, thats all that really matters.

[Ionos]

The car doesn't ingest ambient air.. It ingests intake air.

The hotter the air the less dense it is, as a result the less power the car will make, this is where the dyno makes small adjustments.

The power figure is 'around' the mark, thats all that really matters.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I understand that. However, 'intake air' temp is based on the efficiency and design of the cars induction system - the dyno should not be compensating for this. Ambient air temp is what the dyno should be compensating for because this is what will vary depending upon the weather at the time of the dyno run.

By the way, I'm not 100% sure the above is correct it's simply what seems logical to me. Thanks for humouring me.

[INASNT]

The old stick the air intake sensor on the radiator trick hey?

[Sydneykid]

The Dyno Dynamics Shoot Out mode system was designed so that I could dyno my car in Tasmania in winter and in Darwin in summer and get the same power readings. To do that it has to measure both the inlet air temperature and the ambient air temperature

Some clarification might help here;

1. The inlet air temperature sensor (on the Dyno Dynamics) is for measuring the temperature of the air going into the air filter. It is NOT the temperature of the air going into the engine (after turbo, intercooler etc). It is there for correction purposes, to allow for differences in the temperature of the air that the engine gets and therefore the power readings it gives.

2. The ambient air temperature sensor on the Dyno Dynamics is for measuring the temperature of the air in the dyno room. This is the temperature of the air that flows through the radiator, the oil cooler, the intercooler etc. This is important as it affects the temperature of the air out of the intercooler and the running temperature of the engine.

Without both of these temperature inputs, the DD software would not be able to equalise the temperature differences.

Hope that was of some help

cheers

[Robo's]

SAFC are a good baindaid fix. I was able to produce 207rwkw but my graph was not smooth at all. Also, with the stock turbo i was actually able to run a 12.98 pass , that must be a record without a PFC.

[Ionos]

Cheers SK - that clears it up. If that's the way it works, then that's the way it works I guess.

Still it seems that it would make more sense to only use the ambient temperature figure, as the difference between AT and IT would be due to the efficiency of the vehicles induction system which should not be compensated for.

Only using AT would still allow for different weather conditions to be compensated for. (Winter/summer, Tasmania/QLD, etc)

To demonstrate what I'm saying -

Vehicle A and Vehicle B both produce the same power. Vehicle A has a great induction system, Vehicle B has a poor one.

Vehicle A dyno's with AT 25 and IT 30.

Vehicle B dyno's with AT 25 and IT 50.

Even though the actual power is the same, Vehicle B will get a higher Shootout power figure as it is "rewarded" for it's craptastic induction. Seems silly to me.

Does that make sense or am I completely missing the ball?