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Everything posted by Lithium
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[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos
Lithium replied to Lithium's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
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[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos
Lithium replied to Lithium's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
To be fair it would be quite good to have more real-world logging of how these EFRs perform, I don't see any issue with what Skidz is saying would be nice to have. It would have been epic to have had logging data of the drive we went for in Brett's car, response is subjective while data is data. Look forward to intune's results and hope some data logs from a well setup and tuned EFR can be caught and shared -
256 RB25 Poncam experiences plz .
Lithium replied to discopotato03's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
Each to their own. Hate dose, love a hearty idle! If you can get a hearty idle with a small cam, win win. The cars with huge cams are NA race motors, btw... huge boost and dose don't apply. -
256 RB25 Poncam experiences plz .
Lithium replied to discopotato03's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
I thought that might be the case. Most of the aftermarket cams I've tuned for have been big enough (read: 280-300+deg) to do it anyway, good to know you can do a bit with wee 256s - thanks, Johnny Dose on! -
256 RB25 Poncam experiences plz .
Lithium replied to discopotato03's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
Was hoping there might be the slightest hint of "bigger cam" sound at idle, not necessarily lopey or anything but I like being able to tell there is a bit more going on than stock haha. Was pretty sure performance wise they'd be a bit of a treat Cheers! -
256 RB25 Poncam experiences plz .
Lithium replied to discopotato03's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
What kind of general idle quality have you had with it at the recommended setting? Does it sound at all "cammy"? -
[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos
Lithium replied to Lithium's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
I completed an online course and now i'm an expert in Pokemon Catching. The writing stupid shit market seems pretty saturated. -
[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos
Lithium replied to Lithium's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
But when!? Fair enough - may hit you up when I need the Dunning-Kruger effect further demonstrated sometime. -
[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos
Lithium replied to Lithium's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
Hahaha that's awesome!! Was looking forward to seeing what the S300SX could do but this is a more than acceptable alternative When's the next MickBBQ? Lol -
[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos
Lithium replied to Lithium's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
I see you are laying on the being a tuner thing quite thick, so respectfully while I'm no professional tuner I *have* dabbled somewhat and I tend to take the angle as a "ch00ner" that it's worth making sure that everything you are working with is doing their job properly and if there is some outlier from the norm, voltage being one of the more serious areas to be misbehaving when dealing with EFI tuning imho - then it's very much worth investigating what is causing it. Feel free to call or think of me as a rookie as I am compared to many, but building on a shaky foundation seems like a silly idea - no matter how insignificant the shakiness seems. It may not be what you think it is, and if you build a huge complex structure based on a shaky foundation it's very possible that sooner or later show it's true nature and provide much bigger headaches than if you just did it right in the first place. OK - I'm surprised you decided to blame the turbo as opposed to consider that there is something not working right with the overall setup, considering the overwhelming info and collective experience on EFR turbos that indicate what you have experienced is WAY outside of usual. Everything working right and trying to set low expectations I'd say that you should expect an EFR8374 to feel at least SLIGHTLY better than an XR6 Turbo, in regards to the EFR7670 - if you ignored the fact that it has really nice aero and an ultra light turbine etc and just compared like for like it is a significantly smaller turbo. All other things being equal it should spool faster and be more responsive, noticably so. Same goes if you put a GTX3076R in place of the XR6 turbo - but all evidence points to the EFR being very noticably more responsive than a GTX3076R. Given you've decided to blame the turbo, you seem like you might be measuring a lot of the stuff in here as being fanboism and just rushing for the latest greatest - that's not how I roll, I just look for the best ways of making good performance and try and work out if or what isn't working right - I did spend a period of time in this thread warning people off EFRs due to the supply and reliability concerns which popped up in the first years after they were released, I'll call a spade a spade and be conservative and polite about it. What you are saying doesn't add up and if I was involved in a car which had an EFR7670 which didn't look flash compared to a stock XR6 turbo then I'd treat it exactly the same as if I was tuning an RB20 with a 20G and it wouldn't make over 160kw, I'd not say that the RB20 can't make over 160kw nor would I say that 20Gs can't flow that much, the odds are something isn't right and there is a lot of improvement to be had by ironing it out. In terms of "not performing well at low boost" that's an interesting one, never heard of that - I know I've heard of people throwing that kind of thing around for Precision and other turbos at times but it's kindof a non-thing, you can't really say that about a turbo as a general term. I can't answer that question as I have no idea what power you're looking for, what your engine/setups flow will be like etc so I really can't say whether it would perform or not on your setup. Generally speaking the EFR efficiency ranges seem to "scale" fairly well through the pressure ratios until you reach the max safe flow they can provide, so if it will perform at 32psi without choking then it should also be fine at 20psi. If you engine outflows that then you've not matched the turbo correctly, the same applies whenever selecting a turbo. -
[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos
Lithium replied to Lithium's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
Oh right, from your numbers I assumed you were running a 2.6 - I've only just showed back up in this thread so behind the ball. That's interesting, but could show how much the complete setup can have a big influence one way or another on things. Still, will be interesting to see how they compare. -
[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos
Lithium replied to Lithium's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
Ah ok, missed that subtlety - damn tuna humour flying over my head. I fully associate with the clear data thing and think it would be beneficial if there is some good data which comes through, I guess that's a tricky thing about Reaper's car is that his had VCam and I'm not sure how much that part of it contributed to the epic performance it delivered but I am very confident that if he had been able to deliver some logs on how it spooled it'd have cleared some questions up, though while his setup seems potentially a bit less refined and definitely more basic I'm very interested to see how @HarrisRacing's logging goes if or when he shares his. Its only stock stroke as well so it'd definitely be at a disadvantage compare to yours. You can't go making excuses about the engine bay looking low key or whatever though, that's completely irrelevant as has been said a few times. One of the big things about going this direction is eliminating the weak points in a configuration, this is one of the reasons a single turbo is ftmfw. ACTUALLY... @Subboy, can we convince you to data log a couple of pulls from low rpm to show how your EFR8374 spools at some point?? -
HKS GT SS vs 2530's vs Trust T517Z's
Lithium replied to jezzrrr's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
Pfft they don't count, they don't tend to post on English speaking forums! And yeah sorry was going to add that, very good point - I don't know why people get hung up on Jap brands! -
HKS GT SS vs 2530's vs Trust T517Z's
Lithium replied to jezzrrr's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
Considered a Link ECU? Australia itself doesn't get worse readings, its just they use Mainline (which probably read closest to Mustang) and Dyno Dynamics (which read a bit lower again) predominantly so as a general rule most of the results end up lower. American fuel is very comparable with what we get in NZ/Oz - I think there are very few countries which get better than our ~97-98RON (what you guys call ~93). -
[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos
Lithium replied to Lithium's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
That should be very interesting! I thought about a 7670 and even then I thought it'd be a bit mad, look forward to seeing results How far away will this be? Not a nice day for a ferry ride today, looks pretty outside but that wind can make for fun sailing if it is coming from the right direction. Still, other than that hope you enjoy the trip around - South Island can be pretty sweet around this time of year. Not too surprising, no matter how you cut it - a 7670 is quite a large turbo for an SR20, I guess with the hype you'd be forgiven to hope for it to be overall lively but I'd say most people would expect a GTX3076R to be a dog until near 4500rpm on an SR20 so despite being one of the closest equivalents it still seems rough if you have to wait till after 4000 for real life with some a baller setup... I guess it depends on what you are comparing to. Or are you saying it was lazy even considered it is a 400wkw capable setup? The EFR7163 seems like a neat wee donk, I'm still something of a doubter in terms of the magic that Full-Race put it across as HOWEVER it does seem like a very good beast as well - there are a couple of SRs which seem to go ok, have a mate who has one on a 4G63 but he's getting messed around by people who are meant to be finishing the build... should have been running ages ago. -
[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos
Lithium replied to Lithium's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
I think you need to take them seriously - it's not a negative though, people often run turbos harder than they should and sometimes run into premature problems and blame the turbos themselves. Borg Warner have been very transparent about the limits and have made it easy to track how hard they're being pressed (turbine speed sensors are easy to acquire and install) so fair play. Keeping within the limits of the turbine speeds they are still unparalleled in terms of power vs response compared to other turbo setups I've experienced so it's not a limitation. Mate, you don't mess around - stoked I got a chance to get a taste of this setup before you sold it! Squeezed through by days, whoever buys it is in for a treat! I have to say, I do wonder how much VCam has contributed to the epic performance. Will you be VCam and EFR in the new build? That will be a very interesting setup! In an R34 GTt? I've been saying this for ages in this thread but now I've experienced it first hand its more significant than I expected, don't be disheartened if you see dyno plots which seem less epic than my ramble suggests - even Reaper's car wasn't full boost until after 4000rpm in a dyno run. It seems real world is where they shine, which is where you want it to until you are just dyno drag racing. How long are you in Wellington for? Sorry about the weather. While you did add some value (the data would be interesting to compare) and SAU is definitely full of silly comments you can't really complain too much when the majority of the off topic/silly comments in that last part of the thread were from yourself. Keep it real, man - this is a Borg Warner EFR thread... not a thread people who to come to read want to find posts going on and on about pump gas, stock engine bays and antiquated Garrett bolt on turbos and trying to blame tuning on them performing like nuggets. If you are going to carry on like that then of course you're going to get some stick. -
[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos
Lithium replied to Lithium's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
I'm sure no one could flame you for that, any reason I can think of which would make you do that suggests things aren't going well for you -
HKS GT SS vs 2530's vs Trust T517Z's
Lithium replied to jezzrrr's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
Can confirm, Australian dynos read really low compared to most dynos around the world and while there are a lot of knowledgable and generally good dudes on here - the fact they have inconsistent and USUALLY low reading dynos seems to be a point of pride and you have to tolerate a certain amount of dickheadedness now and then when posting on here and dyno figures come up. Basically add around 10% to anything that comes from an Oz dyno (unless it's a Dynapack) to make it make sense, or subtract 10% from yours (unless it's a Mustang dyno) to avoid dickhead comments ruining the chances of a reasonable conversation when posting on here. -
[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos
Lithium replied to Lithium's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
Fair point too, its a crying shame there are no straight up comparisons between setups where people have upgraded from -5s/whatever to an EFR in the thread - obviously having a different setup (not just turbo) makes the comparison thing a bit difficult as well. @reaper - If there was a chance do you reckon sometime you are out lurking in the monster reckon you could try get a log or someone to take a pic of the dash showing how much boost you can build by 3500rpm with the 26 similar to what you did with me and Paul this weekend? Might blow some minds. -
[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos
Lithium replied to Lithium's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
Bare in mind that 3rd gear pulll was 3 up going up a hill from low rpm, it was pretty heavily loaded and probably comparable with a typical 4th gear pull. It was much much better than I expected, but fwiw I'd not have said it would do it if it didn't - I realise a log would be a bit more precise, but basically when you are in a car running 28psi and its hard to differentiate between the tacho getting past 3000rpm and the gate opening you know its not shabby. I have to admit semi-regretting not recording that but I was mostly being selfish and just enjoying the ride, it is flat out one of the most impressive GTR engine performances I've experienced and DEFINITELY the best from anything with under 3litres of displacement. 3700ish for 19psi is good going for -5s! Nice -
[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos
Lithium replied to Lithium's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
Worgy approves this message. PS. That has been pretty much my dream GTR engine spec for years, now.... assuming you mean EFR9180. I am very excited to hear how you go with it! -
[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos
Lithium replied to Lithium's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
90%+ throttle definitely counts as load - even if it isn't pulling the car around -
[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos
Lithium replied to Lithium's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
Hi all! I've not really been active on this forum for some time and although I lurk in to read bits and pieces of interest I don't really think of this as a forum I'm part of but I once was and I did start this thread a good 6 years ago with idea that a potential game changer for people playing with Skylines was on the horizon and it'd be worth discussing or looking into.... I've been privy to lots of opinions and data from what other people have done but beyond thrashing around a mates Toyota GT86 with an EFR6758 (which isn't THAT adventurous a combination) and have forwarded on a certain amount into this thread in the years past but I'd not personally been in a solid EFR setup car, let alone a Skyline so there was never really much point me adding anything here but after this weekend's activities a little birdy has been in my ear that I should really give my 2c - so here it is I am a very cautious kind of guy, I don't like overstating things and I don't like setting expectations unrealistically high - people who know me well will know that when discussing hypothetical setups and expected results I separate what I think is actually possible and what I think is a reasonable expectation, too often I see people evangelizing about the latest greatest thing they've heard of with no real data and overstated views on how they think their suggestion will perform compared to others and it surmounts to them convincing people into something that doesn't really do as well versus other alternatives as it could have and potentially have cost a lot of money or effort for little reward. I don't ever want to be that guy, but still I clearly laid on pretty thick that I suspected these things could be a bit of a game changer for GTR tuning and until this weekend I've never really been too sure of exactly how much of a valid call that was. So, this weekend I ended up in Sydney and caught up with a bunch of stout characters with stout cars in the interest of combination ethanol consumption with ethanol consumption (and a bit of talking crap and eating meat thrown in there) and one of the guys who showed up was Reaper from this forum - has an absolutely immaculate R34 GTR with a stock bottom end RB26 with VCam and an EFR8374 with the 1.05a/r hotside on a Full-Race big tube manifold, and somewhere during the day he generously gave me the chance to go for a spin around the block in his creation. I have to say, I *not* a fan of stock stroke RB26s... at least in GTRs, every single one I've been in seem uninterested in doing much under 4000+rpm and even above there often are half convincing by my tastes - at least when in combination with a heavy (for the displacement) 4WD car. When I jumped in the car I had already cut some slack for the displacement of Reaper's car when combined with the fact it has a rather larger 79lb/min capable turbo on it when combined with the fact there were 3 decent size lads in the car - anything that happened next would be considered as "... for a stock stroke RB26 ..." but it turns out that wasn't necessary at all. We jumped in the car and cruised off, and as the revs came up in second gear Reaper decided to snap open the throttle - not 100% sure what rpm it was at but it wasn't huge, very much in the rev range that with a conventional twin HKS GT2530/Garrett GT2860R-5s setup would result in a louder exhaust note and a gradual reverse-bungy build up as she winds up and buggers off... but that is not what happened. With 3 people in a well set up car on good tyres and a piddly wee 2.6 the damn thing snapped open the gate, squatted, scrabbled for traction and screamed off up the road and almost immediately ran out of 2nd gear, then 3rd gear etc. I was very much left going - wtf just happened?? This set the tone for the rest of the happy lap in the car, I honestly would have believed it had a stroker kit on it or something of the type. The thing just stood up SO fast. I've never been in a stock stroke RB26 setup that stands up like that, the only RB28 I've been in (sorry Piggaz) was a VERY heavily optimised setup, possibly the best -5s setup I know of and this stock bottom end thing is a different level. I've been in RB30 setups even making less power than this (ie, less turbo) which don't stand up on boost like this, perhaps more natural torque at lower rpm but in terms of the turbo coming on song and letting the car gtfo - nope. I have no doubt that VCam and the rest of the coin Reaper has invested in his car all contribute to the epic outcome, but realistically I very much doubt it would be quite as spastic as it is without the EFR on the side of it... the whole experience embodies what people have told me about how these things behave and I've forwarded on some of these testimonials but have never been able to give my own. I have to say: Believe the hype. Its all real. These things are the shit. It is epic how fast they respond to a stab on the throttle, even from surprisingly low rpm - and one of the most ridiculous things that happening during our little joy ride was when he loaded it up in 3rd gear going up a hill.... having an external wastegate really helps get an idea of when a turbo is making "good boost". We had ~28psi dialled up for this pleasant outing, and as we approached a hill in 3rd gear at quite low rpm Reaper stood on the throttle and let it build boost. This was obviously one of the "best case scenario" type turbo spool things, and naturally won't represent the typical boost threshold you'd see on a dyno or flooring it on the flat in a lower gear BUT the damn thing opened gate at just over 3000rpm. This is an RB26 engine with an 800hp capable turbo opening gate at over 20psi at just over 3000rpm. Seriously. I remember having a discussion in and away from this thread about the idea of RB30+ engines with EFRs in GTRs etc and how amazing they'd be but I don't think I really got quite how mental it would be. I'm happy to know people are starting to embrace these turbos on GTRs, let alone with VCam. The world is a better place for it. Its a crying shame that dyno results don't seem to capture the magic of what these turbos are like to experience, and I know that reading other peoples testimonials don't do it justice but if there is any evidence for anyone reading this thread who may be at a crossroads in turbo choices etc and wondering who to believe, and thinking Precisions etc seem practically as good (or better) for less money.... just look at the amount of long time GTR owners (including some who were anti-single turbos) in this thread who have gone out immediately after experiencing an EFR first hand and ordered their own. Ignore the fact that Precisions make more power per mm of compressor inducer, or the fact that the EFRs seem to run larger turbines for a power level, or the fact that Holsets and Hypergears seem to make dyno plots which look like they stand up really early when driven against a dyno in a pull - there are lots of things out there which make it seem like there are other things which may be able to compete with EFRs for similar or less money in terms of power and response, but if there are... I've not come across it yet and suspect if it is there, then if EFRs seem too expensive then the other option is not worth thinking about, Anyway, I promised I'd say something and it's probably far too long and boring for most people to read - but it's all there, I've not had such a rave about these things before saying they're "that good" like this because I've not had enough data or experience to feel like it's justified... but here it is, so I hope it's worth something to anyone reading through and wondering. If still in doubt, you just have to try and find someone who has an EFR on their car and go for a ride or a drive if its an option. Thanks heaps for the ride, Reaper - bloody awesome car you've built there, and was good to meet you and catch up again with the others again after too long a gap from visiting Sydney. Until next time! -
[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos
Lithium replied to Lithium's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
I'd have gone an EFR8374 over a Precision 6266 on your car with what you were after, money being no object. I'm certain it'd be a nicer setup - though I'm not really so sure it'd be worth the money and effort changing now that you have the 6266 - though. Depends on if you still feel it needs more snap? Maybe try and find someone with an EFR on board? -
[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos
Lithium replied to Lithium's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
Those exhaust versus intake manifold pressure levels are pretty unacceptable imho. You'll find at that kind of level your engine VE will be plummeting compared to normal, if it's even sustainable My take away from that is the 7670 is a terrible call for that engine setup - at least at those rpm. Nismo32ish - because the way the thread convo has panned out I feel compelled to point out that these theoretical numbers AREN'T for E70 like the earlier discussion could lead one to think.