Lithium

Haha yeah it seems I don't really know what I am talking about either, so don't listen to me!!! Good luck with the tuning, I hope it goes as well as can be expected! Should be able to still get a pretty good performance out of it, even if short on it's potential!

Well, that's obviously not ideal. Fortunately PV=nRT, so there is no need for the tune to be a complete throwaway at all. Datalog and keep an eye on IAT etc, if it HAS to go ahead a switched on (hurhurhur) tuner will at least be able to factor that in and make some compromise to ensure that if an IAT sensor gets introduced later then things don't go insane, while also providing a tune which while compromised is usable.

How did it go?

Just looked back over the thread, I had in my head this engine had upgraded internals but looking back over I can't see any evidence of that - is this a fully stock block?

Awesome man, good luck - looking forward to results

If you know that much you can mock my thoughts and my accent, why are you asking anything at all? This is the kind of thing that had me reduce the amount of involvement I had on these forums, and now why I am no longer going to be posting on here after this- it's my issue but I can't help but find it somewhat irritating when is a topic which has potential for good conversation among people who have good things to offer, you get mouth breathers mocking anyone who has a different view to offer to themselves... reminds me of the Bedford level experiment, and associated topics. People too often just don't learn how to learn, but instead learn something and proclaim that something as everything using the same evidence which suggests there is more to consider as proof that it's all there is to consider. Listen to Xklaba, he knows more than you - and seems to be be less disillusioned than me. Try and keep a more open mind, you have a shitload to learn... that much that it seems you can't even see it and don't feel like there is any reason to look. Xklaba, may see you sometime in the near future I'm out!

Cool, will try and swing buy if you aren't looking too busy

Awww yis! Are you going to have one of your cars there?

Yesssss -7s and a 1.05a/r EFR8374 are quite different beasts... I wouldn't suggest the cams I suggested for the EFR for a -7s setup, and vice versa. Xkalaba - I love dyno results haha. I am a data fiend, though that's because with more data you can get closer to determining what is going on and which bits are and aren't cooperating. Don't confuse it with being tied up with dynos being the be all and end all at all, they are just another data source... but a very useful one in he right situation

OK sweet. Yeah I will be catching up with Mick on Saturday coming, and will be at WTAC for sure so be good to shoot the shxt again. I remember (roughly because it was one convo almost a year ago- can't remember the details) that it turned out there was stuff that had been not considered when you made the decision for the cams though obviously a lot of theory was solid, sometimes expected outcome can be part luck and part design and the proof can be misleading. I know this, as I've been sent down the wrong path when I have been "proven" right haha - not saying you chose wrong at all as that'd be folly, just saying keep an open mind as one expected result doesn't necessarily mean it's all nailed down. Be very good to chat further on this, its good having people on the same wavelength with different parts of the puzzle

Argh this reminded me of a post I made last week, apologies if I've been a bit bad behaved in posts - especially last week, was (well am) burning the candle at both ends trying to get ready for the trip to Oz and hadn't realised until too late that I'd started being more flamin mongrely than usual with online posts.... if you're anything like me you probably don't take it personally, but nonetheless I felt like a twat after I'd had a bit of actual sleep. My bad! I did have a point I was making (the picture is much bigger than it seems like you and others are considering) I stand by, but the delivery etc was poor form. Anyway yeah, I remember you mentioning that before - clearly a good result, and proves a general rule of thumb and actually quite surprising, I obviously can't debate it but not sure I'd set that as an expectation for everyone. Do you have the dyno comparison? And is that the same lift, etc etc? That's what Kelford advertise, yes. Do you reckon they are lying, or wrong? What I am guessing from what they suggest in that blurb is aside from being a cammy at low rpm it's likely to have a hell of a power delivery. I haven't tried that exact cam profile so am not going to state exactly what it will perform like as fact, but on the flipside I have been involved with a few cars using Kelford cams and know that they probably know a lot more about cam design than I, and probably everyone in here, I know that their cams have always done exactly what they said they would in the cases I have been exposed to, and they tend to perform a lot better than equivalents from other brands I've seen mentioned here in cases I've seen where people have upgraded to them. I'd venture to say that comparing advertised duration and lift between Kelfords and Tomeis to guess power & delivery would be like comparing compressor sizes between Precision Gen2 CEA turbos and Turbonetics T-series to determine the same. When you said Halford - were you talking about Kelfords? Either way, totally agree with the caveat. Goes beyond that too, the opening/closing of valves and some stuff you probably can't tell from specs will have an influence on the performance and at the end of the day unless you have some serious experience or at least theory with engine / cam design it's probably a lot safer to take into account the manufacturers description and advice on the different models to set expectations instead of casual glances at advertised lift and duration to pigeon hole cams of completely different brands and designs together... which is a lot of why I piped up in this thread. I'm no expert in this, but I know enough to know I don't know enough to tell people how cams I've not experienced first hand are going to perform with any kind of confidence from those two numbers - I suspect most others are no more qualified, if not less to make that call. I don't mean that to be rude, I'm just pointing out that it's probably something better to go more by peoples results... ideally with the same kinds of setup overall as you are going to be using, that's probably the best way to go about choosing cams. Just my thoughts, anyway. I should highlight the "I'm no expert" of course, if there is one in here - this would be a great place to add more if they were so kind

Did you check the link I provided? The 272/10.0s are within the lift range that you mentioned, and to quote Kelford: "272 Duration, 10.00mm/9.95mm Lift. High performance cams to suit applications where low end power and fast spool up is important" The idle will no doubt be not stock, but I doubt they would have said "low end power and fast spool" for a product that is biased to drag-type behaviour. You are not so likely to get a night and day change with a minimal upgrade in aggressiveness as well, this is more likely to turn the car into a new kind of beast - as I suggested earlier, it's at least what I'd personally do if I was putting an EFR8374 on my RB26... and I wouldn't be going for an EFR8374 aiming for a laggy peaky setup.

The internally gated ATRSS2 (0.82a/r hotside) we ordered arrived late last week, is a nice looking unit and Stao supplied a few bits to make installation a bit easier. Busy times at the moment so it now looks like we're not likely to have it running until roughly mid November, but I will update with results. I'm quite looking forward to seeing how it performs

I think too many people who know way too little about engine design/performance over think things, when there are lots of aftermarket outfits who know exactly what they are doing and have done the R&D for you. What is the rest of the setup? What fuel will you be running? Is there any reason you'd go the custom Kelford and not an off the shelf one? Kelford tend to do some of the best performing cams out there - if I had a similar build to what it sounds like you are doing, this would probably be my choice: http://www.camshaftshop.com/products.php?productid=1021#specs

Haven't seen the final product yet, won't until WTAC. Look forward to it, and will ultimately judge it by it's lap times. I think it's completely within the spirit, which I believe was a group of tuning shops in Japan showing what they can do if given the money to do it. People had similar waaaaas when the HKS EVO showed up, but then it became a legend. Tilton is currently something of a legend and prior to Nemo would have been hated on, things change - I am personally excited to see how these things will have progressed and how they perform. I am also excited to see how the Pro-Am etc classes go, all for the different aspects. I look forward to having bourbons and hopefully will encounter some of the SAU'ers there and have some fun conversations - last year more than delivered enough to make it over again, so fingers crossed

7064 personally - if staying stock manifold, I know there are other opinions but I don't like shoving a world of air through that thing. Honestly, I think the Oz/NZ market would really benefit from an aftermarket sidemount exhaust manifold which has respectable flow.

Have you got yours all fixed up now? Heard about that, sucked to hear By your comments, have you got a new power figure now - or you are referring to the old 290ishkw? I partly think the EFR7670 probably has a bit more turbine, before you even get into the fact that it's got the 1.05a/r TS hotside - but before they reach their limits I've seen a few cars even with similar turbines make more lb for lb on that kind of hotside comparison, even if "all in" the peak numbers don't necessarily end up being as different. I'm guessing that on E85 it may not be so much of a difference, though could be wrong there. I tend to agree on the T3 open likely to come on a bit earlier than the 1.05, not sure if it'll be on before the HTA or not but I'm guessing it'll bring the results a lot closer in spool and power to the HTA - if not equal to or better than in both cases. Would be interesting to see, though tbh the 1.05 seems like a winner. On the Full-Race site there is a dyno of a Supra with the 1.05a/r housing doing 524whp on petrol: http://www.full-race.com/store/turbos/borgwarner-efr/borgwarner-efr-7670-turbo.html

Yep, that'll be the old 0.82 T3 housing it had - same as Mat's... 445whp/332rwkw (Oz dyno) one of the highest power figures on pump gas on an RB25 I've heard of with that hotside! I'm picking that's where a lot of the extra power came from, the 1.05a/r T4 is going to be helping out a bit with that cake and eat it too business the EFR is doing. Its not going to be the only part of the puzzle though, very impressive result from the EFR. Makes me sigh, yet again - that I lost patience with Borg Warner sorting themselves out with these things... if they hadn't had those issues I'd probably never have given up on my car and instead been running around with a setup like this

Shit. That's a really good result on petrol, for both really. Shows how much better the EFR is on the exhaust side especially! Again, thanks for sharing - food for thought.

Awesome result, and thanks for sharing - had been meaning to see how you are going with this, and if you'll be at WTAC this year! Even more jealous than ever, before this BOTH turbos were what were in my head likely to be a couple of the best things you could put on an RB25 road/response car so this is good to see. The slightly laggier to spool but more power per psi thing from the 1.05 EFR were both things I expected to see, but to be honest I didn't expect THAT much of a power difference. Very impressive. I thought your HTA made more than that, for some reason? And how does it drive, if you have? I'm guessing you won't be feeling the extra little bit of lag the dyno is implying.

I'm at least excited that people are putting the effort in, I'd rather this than people not trying all sorts of stuff out - despite how ugly and otherwise. One way or another it's going to be interesting to watch, so long as all the front runners don't spend half of the event broken! I'll be flying over again this year, actually arriving in Sydney the weekend after next to make sure I have enough time to go and be a tourist and try and catch up with some locals etc - was an awesome trip last time so look forward to hopefully a similar one this time.... preferably less bush fire this time though. Be good to put some more faces to names, or at least catch up with some faces from last time

Ahh yep that's pretty clear that for one reason or another the duty it's using isn't enough for a certain amount of the time but once it gets up there it's pretty happy, quite interesting That thing is fast, btw

There is an industry relying on people doing that kind of thing to earn their money

Not sure if trolling Either way, pretty sure we had a yarn on this very topic almost a year ago you were talking camshaft design, I remember wondering if you were really listening to my side of the conversation or not. Perhaps I have my answer to that? Production line style tuning can work it lots of cases, especially if applied to identical setups but I tend to be a bit more fussy/cautious about it and prefer to not tell people or apply rules blindly to every setup everywhere without some forethought or testing to ensure things are definitely going to turn out the way intended - but that is just me. The car would at the very least need to be retuned to suit a drastic change like this, imho.

Strictly speaking I'm not sure if you really should need closed loop - I guess I don't know how tricky your setup is, but I would have thought open loop should be sufficient with a good external gate setup to hold a pretty consistent boost level, unless it's actually just physically difficult to build that much boost in the lower gears with your setup and it's more a lag thing than a boost control one? Either way, I've never used it - even with internal wastegates if you don't have any tricky stuff you are trying to achieve the open loop setup is pretty good. I think (/thought?) the gear trim thing was more to reduce or increase boost for each gear as opposed to aid it in reaching the target boost. .3+bar sounds to me more than what I'd have thought was the intention behind closed loop boost control, I figured it as just being there to tidy up slight deviations from the target.... getting near half a bar is like a whole different target though I could be off point here.