Sydneykid

I run 0.7 bar (10.3 psi) with the DFA tuned, but it wouldn't run more than 8 psi before the ECU R&R kicked in. That's with zero mechanical upgrades, std exhaust, inlet, timing etc.

Series 1 or Series 2?

This is growing all the time. If I borrow your Magic Cat, it will come back with stainless steel 3.25" flanges welded on it. Is that OK with you? Let's take this off line via PM if you like.

It has been my experience that genuine GTR cats are very good. What is the flange to flange measurement? (Hopefully ~317mm). If it is, then I might take you up on it as well, that way I can do a 3 way back to back. If BATMBL wants to loan me a Catco, I will make it a 4 way, emissions and dyno test. As long as ABFLUG doesn't mind doing 4 emissions tests. PS; Julian/Ben/Martin if we do this, and I write an article, will you publish it?

Hi LW 1. 3.25" 2. I know the magic cat doesn't loose any power over a 3" piece of pipe on a car with 300 rwkw, already tested that several months ago. If we have time when tuning the Stagea I might do a back to back comparing the compliance cat with the Magic Cat. But I already know the compliance cat is crap, so it won't tell me much. 3. Might take you up on that, have you had the flanges welded on yet? If so what's the flange to flange measurement? (Hopefully ~317mm).

It will handle better in all conditions at 350 mm than it does at 330 mm.

I can't tell, they are just a black blob inside a dark wheel arch.

It had a two piece tailshaft, the rear piece was the standard R32GTST. Yep, there is a flange at the end of the GTR gearbox that the tailshaft bolts to, the GTST box needs a tailshaft with a yoke as it has a splined output shaft.

Quick update; I have a new Magic cat for the test Thanks to BATMBL, I now have the measurements of the Catco (flange to flange is 317mm) So I can now get the Magic cat's flanges welded on to those dimensions That will make a swap over easy, if it is necessary Thanks to ABFLUG we have a RAWS standard facility to test the emissions I will post up more progress as it happens:cheers:

What are the rear ones?

I can answer a few of those; I know the shifter is in the same place, I checked that. The front tailshaft was the same as the "R33GTST gearbox in R32GTST" tailshaft. (That's basically an R33GTST yoke and front shaft (shortened) with the mounting flange off an R32GTST). The rear tailshaft was the standard R32GTST tailshaft. I am not so sure about the cross member, I believe it was an R32 auto one. That needs to be checked, although I had heard (not seen) that it is simple to modify/move the standard R32GTST cross member.

We have 3 X OS Giken multiplate clutches, 1 X twin plate in the GTST and 2 X triple plates in the GTR's. They all rattle when not under load, however they are what I call "competition" multiplates. I understand that OS Giken also have a range of "road" multiplates that have springs between the intermediate plates and the cage that stop the rattle. I get might sick of people rushing up to me and telling me to turn the engine off as it has bad big end rattle. :chairshot "It's OK, its just the clutch",wears a bit thin after 20 or 30 people per race weekend.

Hi Pete, the 402 rwkw works out around 620bhp and it was at 1.5 bar'ish. That engine has a lot of good head work, ceramic coated combustion chambers, piston crowns and exhaust ports, a trick set of split dumps, 5" cat and a 4" exhaust. It was a very nice setup, I really liked it. So much so that we are getting a new road R32GTR shortly and I will most likely copy that set up on it. For road use only the 272's can be a bit much. What sort of lift do your 264's have? Maybe higher lift would be an option, if you don't do enough track work to justify putting up with the 272's. You must be getting pretty close to the airflow limit on the 2560's, there might not be any left to gain from the bigger cams. That was certainly the case with the 2530's, I don't hink they had 1 more horsepower in them.

I have never done it but I have seen one done, looks/sounds like simple stuff. Unbolt the transfer case and remove the chain drive from the gearbox output shaft. Cut off the ATTESSA extension and weld an aluminium plate in its place.

Tell 'em the price sun?

Tough to say, we had an RB on the engine dyno recently with Jun 272/10.8 mm lift cams in it and it made 663 bhp using a similar sized turbo to yours. So I doubt that you would loose anything with those. You could try a 272 inlet cam with your current 280 exhaust cam, my own RB31DET will be getting that combination (Jun again with 10.8mm lift on each cam). In regard to the 264's, we have seen 402 rwkw out of a 2.7 litre RB26 with 2530's, they were 9.7mm lift, so no clearancing or special followers required. It really depends on what you can get your hands on and the cost. If you found the 264's limited the power too much, they are very easy to sell. The 272's are a little harder to sell but I doubt that you would need to. If you decide to go that way, your 280's should be pretty easy to sell as they are a great drag cam. Oh, what lift are you runing currently?

As usual let's do the numbers; 370 cc injectors = 370 bhp in a 6 cylinder 370 bhp = 276 kw 276 kw - 70 kw losses (manual 60 kw + auto 10kw) = 206 rwkw You might make 210 rwkw and you might make 200 rwkw, that sort of window depending on the tune. The next step on the upgrade path is the S15 JDM manual injectors, they are ~450cc's, so good for another 60rwkw or so. Which is pretty close to my rule of thumb max for an internally untouched RB25DET with some k's on it. After that, pick an aftermarket brand that suites your budget. Hope that helps:cheers:

I think we need to clarify a few things; 1. In our race team cars we have a number of different ECU's (Power FC's, Motec's, Microtech's, Autronic's and even an Electromotive in the SuperTourer). I can tell you that I truly believe only the PFC gives driveability as "nice" as the standard ECU with a very sensible amount of set up and tuning time. We can install a PFC and get a reasonably modified Skyline to run very nicely for ~$1300 (including the cost of the PFC). We can also get a Skyline to run nicely on a Motec, but it will cost closer to $5,000 and it won't make 1% more power either. 2. On line tuning for R32/Z32/S13 vintage ECU's has been around for years. Plenty of tuners have the software and the experience to carry out that process. The cost is usually around $800, being $500 for the rechip and $300 for the tune. The problem is I can buy a Power FC for $950 now, that takes similar tuning time to a rechip of the standard ecu. So for $450 extra I get the Commander, which saves me buying a whole heap of gauges and gives me superior diagnostic ability to the Consult style readers (which cost $300 or so on their own). 3.There is considerable difficulty with rechipping the later vintage ECU's (R33GTST, R34GTT, Stagea S1 & S2 and R34GTR). Since R33GTST is the most popular model currently modified, this issue is not to be underestimated. There are some Japanese tuned (rechip via daughter board)) ECU's around, but their cost makes my nose bleed. Buying a Power FC for this vintage is even more worthwhile with the same advantages (as above) plus a lower cost than the currently available rechips. Is it any wonder that the PFC is the most popular ECU.

Big cams and lean running are not a good combination, it is far too easy to burn the exhaust valves. I have seen an RB26 cylinder head back in the machine shop 3 times for exactly that problem, they keep leaning it off via the closed loop aim table to get better fuel economy on the freeway. It is not unusual for tuners to dissable the closed loop cruise for exactly that reason on engines with big cams. The alternative is to set the closed loop aim table a little richer than stoich (ie; closer to 14.0 than 15.0). At 417 rwkw you may be slightly overcammed with 280's, I suspect that high lift 264's or 272's would do the job just as well. Worth talking to your tuner about those 2 options.

Some questions; Is that an R33GTS4 axle or an R32GTS4 axle? The GTR axles that where too short, where they R32 or R33?

Hi Heiko, Jaycar have that covered STOCK-CODE: KC5382 RRP: $24.95 Qty 1+ $24.95 Qty 5+ $22.35 Nitrous Fuel Mixture / Motor Speed Controller Ref: High Performance Electronic Projects for Cars - Silicon Chip Publications. Pulse a fuel injector in a nitrous system. When activated, it will fire the injector at a preset duty cycle, adding a fixed amount of nitrous fuel. This is a far cheaper alternative to a dedicated fuel solenoid and jets. It also makes a great motor controller, to control an electronic water pump, additional fuel pump, cooling fans and more. It is suitable for use with most fuel injectors, or pumps and motors up to 10 amps. Kit supplied with PCB and all electronic components. * Please note that the use of Nitrous Oxide systems is for race use only. Use of these systems on the street is illegal. Then there is; STOCK-CODE: KC5384 RRP: $79.95 Qty 1+ $79.95 Qty 5+ $71.95 Digital Pulse Adjuster Ref: High Performance Electronic Projects for Cars - Silicon Chip Publications. This unit is another huge step up in DIY automotive performance upgrades. It allows you to control and tune the operation of any solenoid that is run by the engine management system. This means that you could control turbo boost without an expensive boost controller, or alter automatic transmission line pressures for better shifts. Alternatively, it can be used to drive and control an extra fuel injector. Additional fuel injectors are commonly tapped into the throttle body to stop critical lean out under high load, high boost conditions. You can now add the injector with +/- 127 step mapping at 128 different duty cycle points. This allows superior fuel control, previously achieved only with an expensive fuel management system. Kit supplied with PCB, machined case, and all electronic components. Kit requires the Handheld Digital Controller - KC-5386. Plenty of options there

On page #6 there is a copy of my IEBC map; 1 - 0==The wastegate is closed to ensure the fastest boost build 2 - 0 3 - 0 4 - 0 5 - 0 6 - 0 7 - 0 8 - 0 9 - 0 10 - 0 11 - 0 12 - 0 13 - 0 14 - 1= Slowly opening the solenoid 15 - 2= I found it I went too fast it would surge between settings 16 - 4=This is because the boost builds very quickly 17 - 6=Especially with the standard turbo 18 - 8 19 - 10 20 - 20 21 - 30= It realy builds boost very fast here 22 - 50=So I had to step up the rate of climb 23 - 50 24 - 70 25 - 90= This is the max opening needed to hold the boost at 0.6 bar 26 - 90 27 - 90 28 - 90 29 - 90 30 - 90 31 - 90 32 - 90 33 - 90 34 - 90 35 - 90 36 - 90 37 - 90 38 - 90 39 - 90 40 - 90 41 - 90 42 - 90 43 - 90 44 - 90 45 - 90 46 - 90 47 - 90 48 - 85= I found the boost dropped off slightly 49 - 85= So I closed the wastegate slightly 50 - 85 51 - 85 52 - 85 53 - 85 54 - 85 55 - 80= Needed a little more to hold 0.6 bar 56 - 80 57 - 80 58 - 80 59 - 80 60 - 80 61 - 80 62 - 80 63 - 80 64 - 80 So to answer your question; 1. The normal ECU R&R strategy kicks in around load point 30 to 35 (90% solenoid closure) as the boost is rapidly ramping up. If the ECU moves the fuel map to say load point 40 to 45 (to richen it up for protection) then the solenoid duty is still 90%. Even if it move to load point 50 to 55 the solenoid duty cycle is still 85%, hardly an difference. 2. When the standard ECU goes R&R it also retards (the second "R") the ignition timing. This lowers the exhaust gas velocity and the turbine slows down, therebye producing less boost. A MAP sensor driven EBC would close the wastegate at this point to try and keep the boost at the target setting. So the way I look at it the IEBC mirrors the standard ECU and doesn't attempt to overide its R&R protection strategy. Hope that answered your question:cheers:

I fee llike I am being too negative here, but the facts are the facts; We just pulled down an RB30E for building into an RB31DET. After cleaning it measured up as per standard specs after 230,000 k's. The bore was perfect, no lip, score or any ovallity either. I don't thinlk LPG would have improved its wear characteristics one litttle bit. This is not exceptional, we have done over 20 X RB30/31DET's and only the obviously poorly maintained ones (ie; oil sludge everywhere) show any bore wear. I expect that if you service your car regularly it will make far more difference to the wear than whether it runs on petrol or LPG.

Haha, 10 mins of Lumpy's time is better than 40 minutes of mine:cheers:

Hi Rob, I have heard of people using R33GTST PFC's in R32GTST's, I have also heard of people using R332/33 GTR PFC's in R32GTSTs. I have not done it myself so I can't say whether it is perfect or not. AP Engineering supply PFC for models of cars that Apexi don't, they are low volume specialty PFC's that Apexi don't believe it is worthwhile programming for. AP Engineering PFC's are more expensive than Apexi. Looking at our R32GTST PFC (AP Engineering) it is much like an R32GTR PFC physically. AP seem to have devised several program changes (eg; deleting one AFM) so that it will work on an R32GTST. But they have left a few others (eg; inlet air temp) that you wouldn't expect to find on a GTST PFC.