hypergear
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Everything posted by hypergear
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The turbocharger on it was an proper GT3071 as what some members are using in a R33 skyline. Except a Garrett .64 T2x turbine housing was machined to suit it. The ATR28SS in only with a 64mm compressor, except the blade radius is lot more then whats the Garrett 71mm compressor wheel has, so the total inlet area between the two wheels probably works out quite similar. Comparing the result: 3500RPM: 65kws v 80kws, 4000RPM: 120kws V 170kws, 41000RPM: 125kws V 180kws Similar to boost level: 3500RPM: 6psi v 8.5psi 4000RPM: 12.9psi v 18psi 4100RPM: 21psi V 15psi It is very different to drive. GTScott: The SS1PU is a larger turbocharger with 73mm compressor. I had a feeling that this turbocharger is abit too big on the compressor end, so the 68mm compressor was developed to match this turbine flow. How ever the theory in designing turbocharger for SR is allowing better exhaust side flow, which is also the reason I really liked to see what a small turbocharger could do on a SR with a large turbine and a huge internal gate. I think the RB25det version of the SS1PU in .86 turbine should be able to crack some where around the 280rwkws mark on my S14. hy_rpm: I'm quite a SR noob, please advises of what I need to buy that enables VCT function, and I will be trail few of the other things that I've suggested. Thanks in advance. Adaptronic S14 Plug in ecu is going in for next tune, which I've been told is more tuneable with few extra features. For details I will speak to Trent about it after the 9th. -
First result with the S14 test car. Using my new ATR28SS1 turbocharger internally gated as a bolton unit. Using pump 98 fuel it maxed at 258rwkws @ 20psi: Far as I know this car has Stage 2 BC cams, and the VCT controlling unit has been taken out, as those cams probably don't have VCT support. It is a shame as it would have made a very big difference in response. This is the interesting part. Vs the GT3071 in .64 Rear. The SS1 has better response, made more power, with more torque: This result would be for a rough reference. I can not conclude that this result can be archived using other SR20dets unless the modifications done are identical to mine. There are too many variances with SR20det builds, which can affect engine output significantly.
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Dyno tune for that is booked in on the 6th of Jan. So results will be published then.
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I just used bolts from Super cheap auto. They are the hex bolts on the stands, I just cut off the hex head. The stock thread is in M10x1.5. One newer turbocharger for SR20det is the ATR28SS15. This one has the exact layout the SS1PU except with blade diameter reduced to 68mm. My prediction would be close to 250rwkws on pump 98 fuel, except there are many variances with SR20dets. It is also made to work with a .86 rear housing in combination with a large 38mm internal gate. In which the turbine side shouldn't be chocking the engine in upper revs. This is a SS2 turbocharger that is made to run on externally gated off exhaust housing (modified by M35 Scotty) with a 3 inches Vband rear assembly:
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Yes the SS1 is smaller then the SS1PU. I'm finding that the diesel turbocharger configuration worked better for SR20s as in keeping the chra size down for response while using a large size turbine end for mid-top range torque. How ever have to see what the dyno says once its been tuned. Another some thing interesting to look at is my modified exhaust manifold with external gate. Yes did run into few issues with the actual gate running into the fire wall which is all yet sorted.: Positioned the gate away from things could be burnt as possible. We should be able to compare results based on using both internal and external gates. Plus I remembered that about year and half ago I've done few dyno runs with exhaust housing mounted external gates, which we can use results from to calculate a percentage difference between manifold and turbine housing mounted external gate setups.
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I also run a 100 cell no brand cat. So far so good. If you do get defected, just buy a stock cat and cat back exhaust. I don't think any thing else passes.
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Some updates. Since I'm waiting for my next tune I've spent some time with the new SR20det. The GT3071 in .64 came out. and now replaced with a much more responsively ATR28SS1 turbocharger: I'm not a very big fan with the .64 rear housings as it turn to chocks the SR in upper revs. So for this Sr20det I've was fitted with a .86 FNT turbine housing, and for any one whom haven't read earlier post the ATR28SS1 has a 63mm compressor wheel. few other thing I've noticed that the SR20s are much harder to work with, replacing the GT3071 turbocharger took me almost 6 hours to complete in which replacing a Rb25det turbocharger would take me less then 2 hours. Even the Tar weight between a S14 and R33 is only 50KGs how ever this S14's chassis felt much lighter then the R33 (might because half of it is fiberglass) . Not only in driving around in corners but also by pushing them around in the workshop. Any way, a dead fuel pump, a bad cluster and a wrongly connected electric fan explained the random cut out pretty well. Means it run lean and dry most of times, with the electric fan blowing at a wrong direction this car would have been overheated and shutting down once so often, the malfunction cluster would inform the driver that nothing should be worried about. A touch of the Gizmmo ebc indicate this engine has been running 24psi most of its life after been fitted into this chassis since the end of 2011. In which I really appreciate the honesty and generosity of the seller, experienced none of the problems that I've mentioned perhaps, and decided to leave this car at his parent's garage collecting dust. How ever the cosmetic side of things do looking pretty good. And every single bolt on it has been lock-tight, which would be my misery pulling them apart. On the positive side it is much better to drive now. boost comes in nice and early, torque pulls all the way to red. With some luck I might be seeing 230rwkws mark on Pump 98 fuel this Friday.
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Since results from the 21U high flows has been reviewed. I'm using the same chra combination for a OP6 rear. If I can get it to perform towards 350rwkws mark E85 then it means this turbocharger will be capable of making 300rwkws based on pump 98 fuel. That would be job well done for a high flow. This particular one is in roller bearing, same to whats been used in side the SS Alpha series. I'm planing to put some Ks on it during Xmas, testing the longevity of those bearings used against heat and high back pressure usually find in high flowing applications. Still running the SS4 Alpha tune, It comes in reasonably early. Unfortunately the bit of screamer pipe I've made for my external gate is too long causing the gate to rub on the heater hoses. That part will be remade, photos will be updated once event occurs.
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Limitations Of Stock Fuel Rail Rb25Det Neo?
hypergear replied to camoo's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
I'm doing 490rwkws on stock rails. No need for upgrade at 350rwkws. -
Since I'm going back to stock exhaust manifold I've made some alterations. The briefing: About that debate of where to attached an external gate to, my opinion was to T piece two side logs from factory exhaust manifold and externally gate. I want the flexibility of running either internal or external gate. Well I originally thought it would be an simple easy job which turned out to be very complicated and involving. Probably not something for average Johns to complete in his garage. Ok here is a first attempt of what I've done to mine: After measuring what might be going where. I've drilled two 30mm wholes on top of both collectors: I've used 30mm dia Steam pipes and bridged them together: A Vband O ring is made and welded onto the end T piece. Note I've cut the 90 degrees pipe at center of elbow which gives me an average dia of 43mm. The gate is positioned with screamer welded, This is our 50mm HPVA gate. The one used on my brae high mount manifold was the first one ever made couple of years ago. Screamer pipe bolted on: So for an externally gated setup this is completed. About the bit that what if I only wish to run an internal gate: A blank was made, allowing the external gate can be removed. Here it is. It took about two days to complete, booked in for tuning next week and hopefully not too much behind what it was with Brae high mount. By the way SSx Alpha turbochargers internally gated bolton version is been made. Evaluations will be conducted with results to follow.
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Lol didnt see that coming. The jjr is ok. Need to die-grind their dump flange abit. From memory it didnt match up with factory gasket.
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I do welcome discussions about SR20dets as I'm learning about it my self. Here is the dyno reading form the S14 I've just bought, with a GT3071 turbocharger appears to be in a .64 T2x turbine: The response on paper is bit better then I anticipated. Its made 22psi by 4300RPMs. Very little power for the amount of boost given. Its lake of down low torque, drives like a NA most of time. The sheet does how that which makes 120kws on 4000RPMs. Same power with 300RPMs better in response would be nice. Other funny thing about this S14 is it appears that they've hidden all the electrical wiring. There are no wiring or fuse boxes any where inside this engine bay. Electrical work would a nightmare. I'm modifying my factory Rb25det exhaust manifold at moment for external gating, how ever it will be externally gated on two different spots of which I think been the highest pressure points. Will upload photos once its done and be interested to see how much difference in power I might be losing from the Brae high mount with a factory bolton version of SS4 Alpha turbocharger.
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Your exhaust is fine and is making good power. No need to change it. Unless the new one glows in dark.
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If I can get VCT enabled that should make a huge amount of difference. Its currently on cam gears. need to get this fuel problem fixed first. So will come to that abit later. any one knows SR inside out in Melbourne whom's interested to do some work?
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Its horribly laggy. I have a dyno reading from Trent before went to see that car. It makes full boost at 4600RPMs. enough revs for me to pump 490rwkws out of the R33. Since its been sitting in garage for a long time I think its got some fuel pump issues cutting off randomly on boost . Its going to be taken back to Forced Motorworx for a full check up before pumping through 24psi.
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The key to success is buy and work with quality. It took a while, I've managed to pickup a worked S14.5 with engine fully built by Forced motor works and tuned by Chequered Tuning that is very properly done with lots of goodies. Gizzmo boost controller (tuned for 21psi running on 19) Autometer wide band AFM Boost gauge 7000km rebuilt engine with 260rwkws (built by forced motorworx) BC 260 cams Drift Exhaust manifold (low mount) RAS (rocker arm stoppers) CP pistons BC rods New turbo (Garrett 30-71) 700cc Nismo injectors Nistune chip (tuned by chequred tuning) 260rwkws (with dyno sheet) Custom air box PWR radiator and intercooler (intercooler is inside engine bay so no chassis cutting) Custom aluminum radiator overflow Cusco front strut brace HKS coil overs all round Greddy oil sump Spit fire coil packs New varex exhaust system 100cell race cat Z32 Air Flow Meter In which will it be used in developing T2x based turbochargers for SR20det motors. With VCT been cancelled. The GT3071R turbocharger in a .64 rear housing is horribly laggy for this SR20det. After driving it 63kms back, I have to admit: RBs are Awesome. Lets see if I can manage to same power with heaps better response.
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The Nissan IWG assembly can be unbolted. Can use a Vband assembly as above or my personal preference bolting up a flange plate with a 3inch pipe welded into the flange. like below: http://www.hypergearturbos.com/images/atr45rear.jpg
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To convert the SS2 to external all it needs is an flange I can supply one for $40 delivered. Haha yes SS6 Alpha, maybe when I get serious with XR6 turbos. Looking to pickup a S14 this weekend and doing some SR stuff.
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Rb25 Turbo Upgrade, All Dyno Results
hypergear replied to Nacho Vidal's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
ATR43SS4BB Alpha Prototype B turbocharger 93 model R33 GTST Forgied CP pistons, valve springs Stock Cams 1200cc injectors 600x300x75mm Front mounted cool Brae high mount exhaust manifold HPVA 50mm external gate plumbed back. Xforce 3inch Cat back exhaust 100 Cell Cat Profect B electric boost controller 4inch intake pipe Adaptronic Plugin Power 435rwkws @ 25psi , E85 Fuel -
^^ Yes the ATR46 is some thing for that application. Stock cams are back. Big thanks to: boostn0199 whom have donated a stock exhaust cam while mine broke. So factory cams are back in and working sweet. Today's dyno run was trailing the newer version of ATR43SS4 Alpha turbocharger, not as huge as the previous one which I would like to call that the ATR43SS-5. I sort of like the power while it made based on the ATR45 (3540 equivalent) how ever couldn't get much drive ability out of it due to the lag. So this one is made to mach the HP as the ATR45 how ever with much better response, down low torque and on road drive ability. So The final figure was 435rwkws @ 25.5psi and peeked 709Mn of torque. This is not at the maximum capability of this turbocharger how ever probably is for my current con-rods. Now compare to the ATR45 which I've dynoed Feb this year that made astonishing 431rwkws during the time: This is much better to drive on road. very strong and wide power band with crazy power up top. Very happy with today's result.
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Well still wheel spinning. It should be reaching around the 320rwkws if it can sit on the dyno. Was Toshi surprised?
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Well if your target HP range is around the 260rwkws mark with mild boost level while retaining factory driving ability then the factory high flowed turbocharger is perfect for this application. We now offer an exchange service, Which you don't need to send us your turbocharger upfront. Means we will send you a high flowed turbocharger for $950 including braided oil feeding line. After installation send us your blown factory turbocharger for a $100 cash back.
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I don't think it matters If you will always be running fixed boost level. Ie. 18psi . because the Timing and fuel distribution table is running based on scale of RPM to PSI. So it will always be running on those cells of the timing / Fuel table. How ever if different boost level is used then the data in reference to the active cell might not be accurate, starting from low moving to high is more of inputting cell data in those areas, for it to work accordingly regardless of what ever boost is used to the highest boost level. So having said all those if the minimum boost level on the turbocharger is set to 16psi and maximum is 20psi then realistically it will only need the data responding to within those boost changes.
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Other part that became a limitation factor is with the boost tapering with internal wastegate setup. Which there isn't much could be done apart from having a very free flow induction (inc cooler) and exhaust system. So I will be doing very precise measurements in terms of wastegating, the boost level will be physically set through the turbine housing to hold a more specific range and nothing less.
