Power Fc

[T-u-R-b-O]

hi fellas,

i did a search on this, but my problem with the PFC is slightly different than the answer I found...

look, i have a SI RB25 and run a PFC pro on it, and it has some issues with it memory... it turns on well, and the engine is also running smooth... i am running 550cc with z32 AFM and put in the figures (67% & 80mm) and the PFC memorized them...

now, since the PFC is running way to much ignition in idle, i edit the ign maps so that it runs smoothly at 850rpm and knock levels stay nicely below 30...

now, when i turn the engine off, take out my key, and then turn it back on again, the newly entered values in the ign. map are back to the original settings, but the injector and AFM have not changed back to stock (still 67% and 80mm) ... so wtf is wrong? pin 58 has constant 12v from the battery, and there are 3 more 12v+ which are switch over relais (when ignition is on), and they also provide electricty to the PFC when key is in ignition position...

but why wont it remember the ign. changes??? also if i raise/lower the values for Rev limit/launch control, it resets them back to factory when I take the power away??

please help...

thx,

nico

[2BNVS]

im having similar problems where the power fc just restores to a base map when i start the car back up... and come to mention it, it the ign/inj settings that i had to keep putting in when i start the car..

the car is currently in the workshop where an auto elec will have a look at it on monday but i too would like to know so we can round a few possibilities out

ben...

[BHDave]

you have a wiring issue. The original settings have been memorised as they were inputted prior to the issue showing it's ugly head.

The problem will most likely be that the pfc is switching off immediately when the key is removed, which means that it isn't writing to memory any changes made.

The first thing to do is check that the ecu is getting the ignition on signal (pin 45) as this is what tells the ecu that the car has been switched on/off and to write to memory.The ecu will maintain power for a second or so after you switch the car off (assuming it is properly wired).

It's this signal that also tells the ecu to kick in the eccs relay and hold it on after the engine has stopped. The constant 12v is just a back up but the ecu will run off it.

This is a big issue in cars that have had engine swaps as the car will run fine without the ignition signal so it tends to be forgotten.

[NICKS33]

i dont understand how people can have a wiring issue is the pfc is a direct plug in replacement for the factory computer...u shouldnt have 2 mess around with any wiring...

[Busky2k]

The ignition correction (ie +3 etc to the whole map) is not written to memory. You have to manually do it every time you start the car.

[N I B]

Have you asked your dealers advise?

[2BNVS]

nicks33- yeh like mentioned mainly happens with engine swaps which is what i had done when i got the 35 head on the rb30 block

"The ecu will maintain power for a second or so after you switch the car off (assuming it is properly wired)"

- is it a big job if it aint wired properley? just lookin at possibilities that it isnt...

ben...

[BHDave]

not really a big job.

It's pretty easy to check the pins and see if they are getting power. pin 45 should get power when the ignition is switched on.

That should then ground pin 16 to trigger the eccs relay, that will then power up 49, 59 and 109. If your relay is triggered directly off the key then you will have a problem.

Edited March 12, 2006 by BHDave

[williamsf1]

had this same thing happen when my car was being tuned....

turned out to be a faulty computer which is a common fault for this PFC....how did we know it was the PFC? well having to R32 GTRs to swap the PFC in and out of helped

oh and I am still waiting for the PFC back, the guy I bought it from frequents these forums and sells a LOT of gear.... perhaps I should shame him into getting a move on and getting my computer back its only been 11mths....

if you have dramas ring someone like BEL garage and they will have the answer or be able to help....

[N I B]

I cant understand why theres no Dealer- agent in Australia?

Would be a good thing to have dedicated service and sales in Oz.

[BHDave]

petroject in parramatta can service/repair the power fc.

[paulr33]

hi guys,

please let me know the official fix and ill add it to the FAQ

[T-u-R-b-O]

hi there,

first of all, thanks for your great advice guys...

today i went to my car to check for the power on the pins you had mentioned in this thread... the results were:

Constant + on pin 58

the moment I hit the IGN ON , pins 49, 59, 109 and 45 get a + ... when I turn the IGN OFF, only pin 58 is left with electricity...

since of this seems to be fine, i believe that there could be some fault in the relais/fuse itself, but i am not sure which one to exchange? does anyone from u guys maybe know?

i am pretty sure that its not the PFC ECU that is faulty, because during some phase in my RB25 s13 swap, it did manage to save the settings that I have entered (ie. i change the Airflow meter to z32, change the 550cc injectors to 67% duty cycle)... those things the ECU did remember in its memory, and now when I try to change them, it wont memorize after IGN is OFF again... it doesnt reset the values to factory, but has the changes (z32 afm & 550cc) in its memory...

any other helpful ideas?

thanks guys !

nico

[paulr33]

when my powerfc was "faulty" it wouldn't boot correctly and would make ticking noises. the apexi logo had pacman characters running around it and it would simply freeze at that stage. if yours is running ok (booting up) and apears to load itself ok then ive got no idea what is wrong. very odd indeed. where are you located?

i guess its upto you, but here is whats i see are your choices

1) open up the powefc and check for any damaged circuits/burnt chips. when my became "faulty" i had a burnt track which was physically cut (acted like a fuse wire). we resoldered it and it worked fine again after that

2) try a powerfc INIT reset and see if that reset's it OK. Then if it does try changing a setting and then power car off and back on again, see if it saves new changes.

3) buy a new powerfc and hope that it works

I can help you with #2 by saving your tune data and settings with datalogit (or someone local with datalogit) and then we can try the reset. there is cerainly no guarantee it will work, in fact its likely to make it worse. you may be stuck on factory defaults which means 370cc inj and rb25 airflow so it may go from driving ok (just loosing its settings) to not running or starting at all as you can't save the afm and inj changes, also the idle procedure will need to be done

#1 is fairly quick and easy but im not sure how safe it is, i was very concerned when we resoldered the broken track and gave the car IGN power, i actually expected sparks to shoot out when we tried to crank it over after resoldering

[BHDave]

hi there,

first of all, thanks for your great advice guys...

today i went to my car to check for the power on the pins you had mentioned in this thread... the results were:

Constant + on pin 58

the moment I hit the IGN ON , pins 49, 59, 109 and 45 get a + ... when I turn the IGN OFF, only pin 58 is left with electricity...

since of this seems to be fine, i believe that there could be some fault in the relais/fuse itself, but i am not sure which one to exchange? does anyone from u guys maybe know?

i am pretty sure that its not the PFC ECU that is faulty, because during some phase in my RB25 s13 swap, it did manage to save the settings that I have entered (ie. i change the Airflow meter to z32, change the 550cc injectors to 67% duty cycle)... those things the ECU did remember in its memory, and now when I try to change them, it wont memorize after IGN is OFF again... it doesnt reset the values to factory, but has the changes (z32 afm & 550cc) in its memory...

any other helpful ideas?

thanks guys !

nico

Is there a delay between turning off the key and 49, 59 and 109 dropping power? There should be. 45 should click off instantly.

As your's is an engine swap, just check to see that pin 16 is triggering the eccs relay.

[T-u-R-b-O]

@BHDave:

well, unfortunatly the moment i switch IGN OFF, the PFC instanly looses its power and switches off immediatly... same with 49,59 & 109 -> IGN OFF and they instantly switch OFF... no delay... where could the error be? faulty relais??

i remember thats at a certain stage during the swap (when i seem to memorize), that when it booted up this apexi image scrolled along and then appeared... this now doesnt happen...

i will check pin 16 now and see what it does when I switch IGN ON...

thanks guys!

nico

[T-u-R-b-O]

aha... just saw now that pin16 is the ground for the ECCS relay... how can i test that its functioning? unplug PFC, give it a + and see whether the relay in the engine bay clicks?

so which ralay are we talking about, because I will exchange it with a new one, and maybe it will solve the problem?

nico

[BHDave]

the relays will be working because you are powering up the other pins, there's no point in swapping it.

to check that pin 16 is working just jam a probe in there, earth the other one and check for continuity when the ignition is switched on.

If thats working and it is all hooked up correctly and you still dont have the delay, the next step is to make sure that the power going to the relay is constant and not a switched ignition as well. You can run a temporary wire straight off the battery to the power in pin of the relay.

[T-u-R-b-O]

hmmm... just to make sure that I understand what u mean...

I should take my little testing light lamp pen (what ever the real name is : ), connect to battery + and then put it on the wire that goes to pin16 and see what happens with IGN is either OFF or ON ?? is this what you mean by probe ? sorry, but my english isnt the best

tomorrow/today, i will go to my car, unplug the ECU and measure out with my little light lamp pen, what each of the ECCS relay pins does what... there somewhere has to be the error ?

and when i find that error, i will it ...

EDIT: i did a piccaso of what i think u mean/what i should do... but something i dont think i understood u correctly

Edited March 18, 2006 by T-u-R-b-O

[BHDave]

kinda, but you really want to get a multimeter to test.

what you have shown should work though the ecu will need to be plugged in for it to work as the ecu will ground that pin.