T.o.g.s Targeting Now In Werribee/hoppers Crossing/altona Area

[Robo's]

Ive lived in altona all my life and in the olden days all the westies would hang out on the esplanade on a hot day. It was great fun but now a days, if the temperature gets warm they put decoys up so you divert up streets etc.

In 3 years ive been pulled over once in my line.

[JVP]

yeh, the good 'ol days. drags up and down pier street lol

[XXX-33]

Seeing cops pull over a couple of people in imports and then coming on here warning people of the "blitz" is not really a reason.

Read your title of this thread and then read what you wrote and if u still wonder why no one cares or why people doubt the accuracy of your information... eat your own head.

i dont care if nobody cares, take the information which ever way you like.

[XXX-33]

i have just moved from altona meadows to boronia coz of work

but i do go back home on the weekends

it was only a matter of time b4 this happened

you ever see that purple undercover XR8 that is around the altona meadows area?

[gdogzgtr]

Could possibly be targeting loud exhaust cars because they can be confiscated under the new hoon laws just for being too loud. Not involved in any traffic offences just driving to work or home slowly. I personally thought WTF when i read this but it is very hard to confiscate a car under these laws anyway reading though our (police) instructions on it. TMU wouldn't really take many cars as you need to Brief offenders and take them to court no penalty notices so too much work in general for them unless on a specified blitz or the driver makes an arse out of himself. Just thought you guys might be interested to know.

[mikymouse]

Meh, Western suburbs rock. Been pulled over once in all my years of driving, and that was only because the police wanted to check my plates as a similar car was reported stolen. Never been hassled, defected, etc... In contrast, when I ventured out to the East one day, I was pulled over by three cops within the span of 30mins.

[XXX-33]

Could possibly be targeting loud exhaust cars because they can be confiscated under the new hoon laws just for being too loud. Not involved in any traffic offences just driving to work or home slowly. I personally thought WTF when i read this but it is very hard to confiscate a car under these laws anyway reading though our (police) instructions on it. TMU wouldn't really take many cars as you need to Brief offenders and take them to court no penalty notices so too much work in general for them unless on a specified blitz or the driver makes an arse out of himself. Just thought you guys might be interested to know.

i heard this too, that if you have a loud exaust or if they hear you dose they cant impound your car.

[JVP]

you ever see that purple undercover XR8 that is around the altona meadows area?

nah, but have been followed by marked cars numerous times from williamstown to my home in altona meadows. the cops would just sit at my house after i go up my drive way. cant do shit if i aint doin nethin wrong ey....

[frx026]

Could possibly be targeting loud exhaust cars because they can be confiscated under the new hoon laws just for being too loud. Not involved in any traffic offences just driving to work or home slowly.

Once again a police officer that does not understand the LAW which he enforces.

Could possibly be targeting loud exhaust cars because they can be confiscated under the new hoon laws just for being too loud. Not involved in any traffic offences just driving to work or home slowly.I personally thought WTF when i read this but it is very hard to confiscate a car under these laws anyway reading though our (police) instructions on it. TMU wouldn't really take many cars as you need to Brief offenders and take them to court no penalty notices so too much work in general for them unless on a specified blitz or the driver makes an arse out of himself. Just thought you guys might be interested to know.

Actually a vehicle CANNOT be taken under the new victorian hoon laws just for noise. The following is from the department of justice website. It lists FAQ's relating to this LAW. Further information can be found in the current Road Safety ACT. It to does not allow police to take a car on a noise basis alone.

The vehicle must be involved in a "hoon" related activity. It is a pity that the Victoria Police have such a poor training manual and are not given the correct tools to enforce the LAW.

These are the FACTS as taken from the Victorian Dept of Justice Website.

I think everyone should have a read so that you are familiar with your rights and responsibilities in this situation.

What is hoon driving?

Hoon driving causes a vehicle to travel at very high speed, or in a manner that produces burnouts and doughnuts. Drivers are considered hoons if their vehicle is involved in a car speed trial or is operated by a disqualified, repeat offending driver.

Specifically, hoon-related offences are

Improper use of a motor vehicle, where the driver has intentionally caused one or more tyres to lose traction.

Exceeding the speed limit by 45kmph or more (or travelling at over 145 kmph in a 110 kmph zone).

Engaging in an unauthorised race or speed trial on a road or spaces near a road that are open to the public.

Repeat incidents of driving whilst disqualified.

The following will also be considered hoon-related offences if they are committed in circumstances involving the improper use of a motor vehicle:

dangerous driving;

careless driving;

failure to have proper control of the vehicle; and

causing the vehicle to make excessive noise or smoke.

What does impounded, immobilised and forfeited mean?

A car is impounded when secured at premises under the authority of Victoria Police and Victorian courts.

While legislation enables vehicles to be impounded, it also provides police with the power to immobilise vehicles. This means a vehicle is mechanically adjusted so that it cannot be driven.

Forfeited vehicles are taken from hoon drivers before being sold by the State of Victoria, which will keep the proceeds.

When can authorities take away my car?

Authorities may seek to impound, immobilise or forfeit a vehicle if it has been used by a driver in the commission of a hoon-related offence.

Who is allowed to impound, immobilise or forfeit my car?

Victoria Police is authorised to impound or immobilise vehicles for 48 hours when officers reasonably believe that an individual has committed a hoon-related offence.

The Victorian courts are authorised to order that vehicles be impounded or immobilised for three months, or forfeited permanently, upon application by police.

Can my car be impounded, immobilised or forfeited if I am caught speeding?

Vehicles may be deemed to have been involved in hoon behaviour if they exceed the speed limit by 45km per hour or more. Drivers who have received a speed infringement under 45kmph and incurred no other offences cannot face impoundment, immobilisation or forfeiture of their vehicle.

The exception to this rule relates to vehicles driven between 145 and 154 kmph within a 110kmph zone. These vehicles are also subject to impoundment, immobilisation or forfeiture.

If my child is caught hooning in my car, can my car be impounded, immobilised or forfeited?

Yes. Victoria Police may impound, immobilise or forfeit the vehicle used for the hoon driving offence, regardless of who owns that vehicle.

However, if the individual is charged with a second or third hoon-related offence, Victoria Police may ask the Court to substitute the vehicle for one registered to the offender, for the purposes of the three month impoundment or permanent forfeiture.

Will my car be exempt from impoundment, immobilisation or forfeiture if I need it for work?

Not automatically. These provisions apply regardless of the importance of the vehicle to your employment. However, all cases of impoundment or immobilisation must be reported to a senior police officer who may decide that it is reasonable or necessary to release the vehicle. Further, any person whose interests are substantially affected may apply to a magistrate for the release of an impounded or immobilised vehicle on the grounds that its continual impoundment or immobilisation causes exceptional hardship to themselves or someone else.

If my car is stolen and used for hoon driving, can it be impounded, immobilised or forfeited?

No. Victoria Police must release any vehicle that they deem to be stolen.

If a car is hired and used for hoon driving, can it be impounded, immobilised or forfeited?

No. Victoria Police must not continue to impound, immobilise or forfeit a vehicle once they are satisfied it belongs to a fleet which is owned by a person who operates a short-term, vehicle hire business.

If the police impound or immobilise my car, will I also face charges?

If Victoria Police reasonably believes that you have committed a hoon-related offence, you may face charges. Charges do not need to have been laid for the vehicle to be impounded or immobilised.

If charges are not proceeded with inside 12 months, the individual must have their payment to recover the vehicle reimbursed. Similarly, if the individual is found not guilty of the relevant hoon-related offence, they must also have their payment to recover the vehicle reimbursed, or in cases where the vehicle is still impounded, it should be released quickly without any recovery cost incurred by the driver or registered owner.

Can police take my car without my permission?

Any vehicle that has been used to commit a hoon-related offence may be impounded or immobilised by Victoria Police for 48 hours. Police may seize the vehicle 'on the spot' or up to two days after the offence, or serve notice on the driver within 10 days of the offence, demanding the vehicle be surrendered to a designated location. Police may also obtain a warrant from a court to search for and seize the vehicle from private property, if it is not surrendered voluntarily.

How many times can my car be impounded?

Victoria Police can impound or immobilise a vehicle for 48 hours at any time if they believe on reasonable grounds that the driver has committed a hoon-related offence.

If a court finds an individual is guilty of their second or third hoon-related offence within three years, Victoria Police may ask a magistrate to impound or immobilise the vehicle for three months, or order permanent forfeiture. The Court orders for three month impoundment or immobilisation or forfeiture are in addition to the 48 hour period of impoundment or immobilisation, imposed by Victoria Police.

If Victoria Police do not proceed with a charge in respect of the hoon-related offence, or the prosecution for the offence is unsuccessful, the costs of impoundment or immobilisation charge must be refunded and the vehicle immediately released.

What if I feel my vehicle has been unfairly targeted by authorities?

Laws have been enacted to ensure Victoria Police cannot unfairly target people for vehicle impoundment, immobilisation or forfeiture.

Once a police officer has impounded or immobilised a vehicle, he or she must speedily inform a senior police officer, such as an inspector, about the circumstances of the alleged offence. This senior officer must then enquire into the alleged offence further, and release the car if there are not reasonable grounds for the impoundment or immobilisation.

If a court finds an individual is guilty of their second or third hoon-related offence within three years, Victoria Police may ask a magistrate to impound or immobilise the vehicle for three months, or order permanent forfeiture.

However, Victoria Police must tell the driver and parties with an interest in the vehicle of such intention, at least 28 days beforehand. The Court must hear the views of anybody who is served this notice when determining whether to order impoundment, immobilisation or forfeiture.

Any person may ask a magistrate to release an impounded, immobilised or forfeited vehicle on the grounds that its impoundment, immobilisation or forfeiture causes exceptional hardship to themselves or any other person.

An individual who is found not guilty of an offence for which their vehicle was impounded, immobilised or forfeited must have their payment to recover the vehicle reimbursed. If the vehicle is still impounded or immobilised at the time they are found not guilty, the vehicle must be released quickly without any recovery cost to the driver or registered owner.

How long can my car be impounded for?

If Victoria Police reasonably believes you have committed a hoon-related offence, they may impound or immobilise the vehicle involved in this offence for 48 hours. If the 48 hour period ends on a Saturday, Sunday or public holiday, the vehicle may remain impounded or immobilised until 9am on the next business day. In addition, the vehicle can also stay impounded or immobilised until all designated costs have been paid by a person with an entitlement to the vehicle.

If you have been found guilty of your second hoon-related offence within three years, Victoria Police may also ask a court to impound or immobilise the vehicle for three months. Police must give you 28 days notice before they seek a magistrate's order to impound or immobilise the vehicle for three months.

If you have been found guilty of your third hoon-related offence within three years, Victoria Police may also ask a court to permanently forfeit the vehicle. This means State Government authorities may take the vehicle, sell it and keep the proceeds. Police must give you 28 days notice before they seek a magistrate's order to permanently forfeit the vehicle.

How do I get my car back after the impoundment or immobilisation period ends?

You will be informed by police of the procedure to recover your vehicle.

A vehicle may only be recovered after the impoundment or immobilisation period ends when all designated costs have been paid by the person with an entitlement to the vehicle. This fee may incorporate the cost of moving the vehicle to an impounded zone, and any other costs involved in the impoundment or immobilisation.

In addition, a person may only recover a vehicle after they have shown evidence of identity and entitlement to that vehicle, through a driver's license and car registration certificate.

If your impoundment or immobilisation period ends on a Saturday, Sunday or public holiday, you will have to wait until 9am on the next business day to recover the vehicle.

How much will I have to pay to recover my car?

In most cases, an impounded or immobilised vehicle can only be released once all designated costs have been paid by the person with an entitlement to the vehicle. This fee may incorporate the cost of towing the vehicle to an impounded zone, and any other costs involved in the impoundment or immobilisation.

Victoria Police must inform the alleged offender about those costs, which are likely to differ between cases, depending upon where the vehicle was when police took control of it. This is because the designated costs incorporate the various rates charged by different towing companies. Some suburbs are further away from the impoundment location, resulting in higher towing costs.

The designated costs payable before a vehicle may be recovered are likely to be within the range of $270 to $600.

How can I get my car back before the impoundment or immobilisation period ends?

A vehicle may be released before the end of the impoundment or immobilisation period if:

A Victoria Police senior officer, such as an inspector, has reviewed the circumstances of the offence and determines there are not reasonable grounds for the impoundment or immobilisation.

Victoria Police are satisfied the vehicle is either stolen or hired. For a vehicle to be considered hired, it must belong to a fleet which is owned by a person or company operating a short-term, vehicle hire business.

A person has successfully applied to a magistrate for the vehicle's release on the grounds that its impoundment or immobilisation causes exceptional hardship to themselves or another person.

The driver whose vehicle was impounded or immobilised has been found not guilty of the relevant hoon-related charge.

Original can be found here

http://www.justice.vic.gov.au/CA256E5F0003...g+FAQs~&3=~

The actual legislation can be found here.

http://www.dms.dpc.vic.gov.au/Domino/Web_N.../86-127a094.pdf

The relevant section is

Road Safety Act 1986

Act No. 127/1986

PART 6A—IMPOUNDMENT, IMMOBILISATION AND

FORFEITURE OF MOTOR VEHICLES

The LAW specifies Deliberate loss of traction, excess speed and other offences, it does not in any part specify or permit Police to take a vehicle for excess noise alone.

[mikymouse]

causing the vehicle to make excessive noise or smoke.

I guess they could use that.

[XXX-33]

I guess they could use that.

if your exaust is louder than the legal db, i hope it doesnt mean they could impound it for excessive noise... i hope its not true, or even letting off a dose.

[Jackie]

the legal db for an exhaust is i think but dont quote me on it, but im pretty sure its like 94db

[Kaz200]

id like to know how they plan on testing it on the side of the road.

If they're not required to test it straight away, it seems a little too open for them to just impound whoever they like.

[saff_cossie]

the legal db for an exhaust is i think but dont quote me on it, but im pretty sure its like 94db

I'm quoting you but not quoting you

I think it is 90db as I had probs a couple of years ago. Also dont quote me.

[XXX-33]

I'm quoting you but not quoting you

I think it is 90db as I had probs a couple of years ago. Also dont quote me.

i think its 92db, i dont think they will harass you if you car is a bit loud, but ive heard exausts that sound like trucks and they might be the ones who will feel the weight of this new law.

[Jackie]

lol anyone wanna throw in that they think its 93db

ive got the PDF file of legal and illegal modifications at home so ill know put up what it is when i get home.

[Kaz200]

Alan's right.. for the majority of import (car) owners on here it IS 90db

Anything before 1983 is 96db

And its actually on the EPA website somewhere.

Apparently those exhaust control valves you can get from nengun etc are illegal too, but I guess thats only a problem if you get your exhaust inspected by vicroads/EPA.

Edit: here you go

http://epanote2.epa.vic.gov.au/EPA/Publica...31?OpenDocument

[gdogzgtr]

I love how quick some people bag police for not knowing the LAW as a general duty officer we need to have knowledge in many area's and to know them all would be impossible just like if you go to a solicitor they don't know everything about all types of LAW do they? Why else do they have different ones for family law, commercial law and criminal law just to name a few. LIke stated earlier CAUSE excessive noise or smoke this would occur if your exhaust was too loud as you have caused it by changing your exhaust not saying that this would ever happen but like most on here have modded cars as such making them ILLEGAL under EPA. I do know about Law on how to use EPA so I guess I will just stick to that.

[frx026]

I love how quick some people bag police for not knowing the LAW as a general duty officer we need to have knowledge in many area's and to know them all would be impossible just like if you go to a solicitor they don't know everything about all types of LAW do they? Why else do they have different ones for family law, commercial law and criminal law just to name a few. LIke stated earlier CAUSE excessive noise or smoke this would occur if your exhaust was too loud as you have caused it by changing your exhaust not saying that this would ever happen but like most on here have modded cars as such making them ILLEGAL under EPA. I do know about Law on how to use EPA so I guess I will just stick to that.

Graeme.

Whilst I support the Victoria Police and their members. I do not support all of their actions relating to vehicle laws and drivers in this state.

Let me make this clear, I am against street racing and other illegal dangerous activities that place innocent people in harms way. With that you will not have any argument from me.

However. For too long now General Duty Police who do not know the LAW have been the ones enforcing the LAW. In many cases they have not known the LAW, yet used their discretion to apply penalty, such as Un Roadworthy or EPA inspection with the knowledge that they themselves are immune from paying for any damages that might result from loss of income or costs that the person may be faced with. ie - being sued.

If you yourself are familiar with the LAW and the guidelines with EPA and roadworthiness standards in Victoria then fine, congradulations to you. You are one of the FEW serving members that could honestly say that.

Unfortunately for you, I beleive the general "car head" population have a very different view. And that view is that Police target cars that are modified for no reason, eg driving to work or being on a trailer leaving an event.

These actions and the general lack of knowledge of automotive standards amongst the Victoria Police regardless of the general or specialist field they operate within taints the entire force.

As stated, I support Victoria Police and the ideal of removing dangerous drivers and death trap cars from the roads.

But, there are acouple of other angles to this.

Lets think about the phrase "excess noise". From my experience this is based solely on the officers opinion and not a fact. TMU cars in Victoria are not equipped to perform tests on any vehicle on the side of the road. Vicroads and EPA have very strict guidelines that must be adheared to for a car to classed as too loud. None of which could be accomplished on the side of an open road.

The other thing to consider is that maybe by introducing this legislation the Victorian Government is really creating a major problem with the potential for the Aftermarket Automotive industry in Victoria to close or leave. Or are these legallly run businesses just expected to bear the brunt of the governments lack of understanding and the Police over enforcement of these "laws".

That would of course lead to a bigger question.

Who would the Aftermarket Automotive Industry in Victoria sue for damages for lost income?

(Currently it is worth around $225Mil ( based on the figures I obtained) each year, each item donation tax etc to the governments revenue.)

There are a stack of other questions, who employes the now unemployed exhaust shop owner? who feeds his kids etc? But lets stay on topic.

I find the entire situation ludicrus.

This post by the way has not been aimed to flame anyone individual. It is aimed at being constructive and so has been keep factual.

One extra fact that has never failed to surprise me is that TMU cars are over the Legal noise limit in Victoria because they are fitted with a HOLDEN BY DESIGN exhaust system to improove highway performance. Pity as a motorist I cant put on a uniform and send them to EPA.

[dezz]

One extra fact that has never failed to surprise me is that TMU cars are over the Legal noise limit in Victoria because they are fitted with a HOLDEN BY DESIGN exhaust system to improove highway performance. Pity as a motorist I cant put on a uniform and send them to EPA.

aren't they also too low? have some form of modified ECU?

i'm sure there's more...