Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

Just wandering if anyone has experienced severe axle tramp where it feels like the rear end is going to rip out alltogether.Have harder springs and camber bushes and pineapples but no matter what I do I still have it.It seems to be worse in the rain but I think that would be because the wheels start to spin earlier.I only have two ways to launch, control the revs with my right foot, or smoke the tyres hard enough to keep it smooth.The latter may look impressive but not exactly the quickest way to get going.

I have:8" rims with Hankook k104 tyres.

Drift R rims(shouldn`t be too heavy).

King standard low springs.

Whiteline upper camber bushes

Excel-g gas twintube shocks.

Pineapples in neutral position.

The very second I accelerate or drop the clutch it feels like the wheels are only making contact with the road every 100mm.In fact if I find a nice fresh patch of road you can clearly see the rubber only makes contact every 100-150mm.Car has never been in an accident and does not appear to have any worn bushes, just 220rwkw I can`t use to my advantage below 4500rpm.It is at the stage where I am trying to design a traction bar or tramp rod system but no matter which way I look at it the suspension will be limited in it`s movement.

Any ideas? :)

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/128984-axle-hop/
Share on other sites

Take out the pineapples....I think they are part of ur problem...Before i put those in the car would spin without it all the time...

But still its only on the occasion that it does tramp.really if the brake is applied and i start a burnout in first gear it does it. but for plain drift it is good with them

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/128984-axle-hop/#findComment-2386879
Share on other sites

That is why I put them in,to try and stop it.It feels as though there is no difference one way or the other.I`ve seen hot rods,street machines,skylines and all sorts of cars that don`t do it.WHY MINE !! Now I know I`m not the only one so has anybody done something where the hop just stopped? Super stiff shocks ?, rock hard coils?, slushy suspension?,replace springs with solid steal rods?I don`t care just give me ideas. :P

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/128984-axle-hop/#findComment-2386933
Share on other sites

I used to have severe problems in my 180sx, even after the alloy pinapples. I also had brand new coilovers too, so that wasn't the problem. At that stage I was running Bridgestone Potenza GIIIs in 215/ 60/15 on stock 6" rims. The grip was awesome, but it would tramp pretty bad. Since replacing the wheels with R32 wheels and tyres Dunlop 205/55/16, the tramp is a lot improved now.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/128984-axle-hop/#findComment-2387151
Share on other sites

skyline couple i have the same problem. Thought it was my shock absorbers replaced them and it still does it. I do have the same tyres as you (Hankook 104), so that could be the prob.

Edited by gtst1976
Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/128984-axle-hop/#findComment-2387240
Share on other sites

Ok, seems like I will have to put the stock rims on and some really crap rubber then skate around like on ice.I know,I`ll only take off in second and just smoke em up EVERY SINGLE TIME I LAUNCH !!!

Sorry,I`m alright now,just having a sarcastic moment.Just a little observation; when somebody mentions TURBO, we get a minimum of 20 answers.Type up injector,exhaust,BOV, or pod filter and we get the same result.We are so focused on power that we forget to work out a way to put it to the ground.

Now somebody mention braking, we would be lucky to see three answers.We kid ourselves we have cars faster than a Porche or M3 BMW but having driven both I can`t recall the owners complaining of axle tramp.Having dropped the clutch of a wide body sc carrera many times, na,no tramp.Thankyou to the two people who tried to help but we are obviously the only ones with this problem. :thumbsup:

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/128984-axle-hop/#findComment-2388934
Share on other sites

10% of the time it’s tyre pressures, the sidewall flexes and releases. Try pumping the tyres up and see if the axle tramp stops and/or gets less.

5% of the time it’s worn subframe bushes, since you have fitted a rear subframe alignment kit (pineapples) I suspect that isn’t the problem in your case.

25% of the time its drive shaft angle, the car is TOO LOW and the angle of the universal joints are winding up the drive shafts. If your car is lower than 345 mm centre of wheel to guard on the rear, then try raising it up.

60% of the time it’s incorrectly matched spring and shock damper rates. The rebound (extension) damping is not sufficient to control the oscillations of the springs. Standard springs with worn shocks get this problem. BRAND NEW aftermarket coil overs get this problem where the spring rate is too high for the shocks to control.

Once you have eliminated 1, 2 and 3, then your problem is #4

:no: cheers :D

Edited by Sydneykid
Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/128984-axle-hop/#findComment-2389123
Share on other sites

What I read from SK's experienced knowledge is,

On the intial shock of the tyres biting in, the rear end ducks down, so springs and shocks compress and then release slightly, its when they release that the tramping starts, if the shock doesnt release as fast as the spring? it sets up a series of jolts that rebound off one then the other?

I'm learning here and just thinking out loud so to speak. :no:

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/128984-axle-hop/#findComment-2389307
Share on other sites

What I read from SK's experienced knowledge is,

1. On the intial shock of the tyres biting in, the rear end ducks down

2. so springs and shocks compress

3. and then release slightly, its when they release that the tramping starts, if the shock doesnt release as fast as the spring?

4. it sets up a series of jolts that rebound off one then the other?

I'm learning here and just thinking out loud so to speak. :no:

Almost;

1. Yep, you got it

2. Yep, that's it

3. Nope, not quite, what happens is the spring rebounds from the compression in #2. But the shock isn't "strong" enough to release that energy smoothly, the spring recoils too quickly. This rapid release takes the weight off the rear of the car, it springs upwards. So the tyre spins a little bit. When the energy of the spring is fully released (only takes about 1/100th to 10/100ths of a second) then the "upwards" stops. The tyre has weight on it, so it grips again, then the spring compresses, then the shock can't control it agians etc etc .

4. Yep, that's it, as per #3.

If you want to test #3, get a small spring and compress it with your finger onto a table. Then release it by slipping your finger off to the side, very quickly. The spring will jump off the table.

Then compress the spring the same, but this time leave your finger on it and let the spring decompress slowly. The spring doesn't jump up off the table. In the second example, you finger is a good shock absorber, it releases the stored energy progressively, hence the spring (and the tyre in a car) doesn't jump off the ground.

:D Cheers :)

Edited by Sydneykid
Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/128984-axle-hop/#findComment-2389373
Share on other sites

I kind of thought along those lines myself.I am very reluctant to put the Bilstiens back in til they are rebuilt with softer valving on the initial movement.Gary, perhaps you could give me an idea what it would cost to rebuild and revalve 4 shocks.Also,I find if I run tyre pressures in the rear at 38lb the centre tread wears out before the side tread.What do people run in the rears for street driving,I always use 35lbs but will try a higher pressure if needed.On the front I use 38lbs and get perfect tyre wear across the tread.

Edited by skylinecouple
Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/128984-axle-hop/#findComment-2390007
Share on other sites

I used to have severe problems in my 180sx, even after the alloy pinapples. I also had brand new coilovers too, so that wasn't the problem. At that stage I was running Bridgestone Potenza GIIIs in 215/ 60/15 on stock 6" rims. The grip was awesome, but it would tramp pretty bad. Since replacing the wheels with R32 wheels and tyres Dunlop 205/55/16, the tramp is a lot improved now.

i'm running the same tires on my 180sx, getting heaps of tramp as well. happens when i chuck the clutch from a standstill. doesn't happen during a power slide. Suspension is stock as rock. so i was wondering whether it could be as SK said about the suspension.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/128984-axle-hop/#findComment-2391483
Share on other sites

I kind of thought along those lines myself.I am very reluctant to put the Bilstiens back in til they are rebuilt with softer valving on the initial movement.Gary, perhaps you could give me an idea what it would cost to rebuild and revalve 4 shocks.Also,I find if I run tyre pressures in the rear at 38lb the centre tread wears out before the side tread.What do people run in the rears for street driving,I always use 35lbs but will try a higher pressure if needed.On the front I use 38lbs and get perfect tyre wear across the tread.

I never run tyre pressures over 30 psi cold.

PM me for prices on Bilstein revalving, I need to get a feel for how much you want to change it.

A Skyline typically weighs 60% front and 40% rear, hence why you CAN run higher front tyre pressure than rear and not suffer excessive over inflation wear. Or, it could be simply that the excessive caster wear is offset by the excessive tyre pressure. There is no caster on the rear to offset the excessive tyre pressure at that end.

Excessive caster wear can be caused by excessive caster (obviously) or by a driver who doesn't use the caster (ie; drives on freeways a lot and/or doesn't corner as fast as a sports car is set up for).

Are you saying at 38 psi the axle tramp stops?

But when you go down to 35 psi it reappears?

:) cheers :D

Edited by Sydneykid
Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/128984-axle-hop/#findComment-2392746
Share on other sites

ive had the same trouble for about a year and a half now (since upping the power on the car). i put adjustable dampening shockies in to try control the axle tramp, mainly at the drags where you get better grip and more tramp, is it better to set them softer or harder??

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/128984-axle-hop/#findComment-2399533
Share on other sites

Setting the shocks harder will limit tramp but will not allow squat to transfer weight of car onto back wheels for better grip.I tried running 34lbs this morning in the rear at 7.00am.( Tyres were very cold).After inflation went for a small drive to warm them up and then launched at 3,500rpm.Still hopped but not as bad.Tried launch at 4,500rpm,just dumped the ceramic clutch and a lot of wheelspin but smooth as silk.Needed to feather throttle but only a little.Did the same again but left it on the limiter and into second found alot more wheelspin.As slow as that sounds it actually felt quicker.I think by keeping my foot into it the boost built much faster.When I get to WSID I`ll try 5,000rpm and see how I go. :no:

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/128984-axle-hop/#findComment-2405752
Share on other sites

Just air.I realize now that the sticky tyres were causing the problem.Being mechanically sympathetic I didn`t want to over rev it so was causing the tyre to bite too much.With the harder launch the extra wheelspin gets me past the point of axle hop.I guess with every new change I have to adjust my driving style.By the way,when someone says adjust your pressures cold,they mean cold.I thought I had put 34lbs in the rears but when I checked in the driveway after a cold night the actual pressure was30lbs. 34lbs now though.Big difference.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/128984-axle-hop/#findComment-2406537
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...
Almost;

1. Yep, you got it

2. Yep, that's it

3. Nope, not quite, what happens is the spring rebounds from the compression in #2. But the shock isn't "strong" enough to release that energy smoothly, the spring recoils too quickly. This rapid release takes the weight off the rear of the car, it springs upwards. So the tyre spins a little bit. When the energy of the spring is fully released (only takes about 1/100th to 10/100ths of a second) then the "upwards" stops. The tyre has weight on it, so it grips again, then the spring compresses, then the shock can't control it agians etc etc .

4. Yep, that's it, as per #3.

If you want to test #3, get a small spring and compress it with your finger onto a table. Then release it by slipping your finger off to the side, very quickly. The spring will jump off the table.

Then compress the spring the same, but this time leave your finger on it and let the spring decompress slowly. The spring doesn't jump up off the table. In the second example, you finger is a good shock absorber, it releases the stored energy progressively, hence the spring (and the tyre in a car) doesn't jump off the ground.

:P Cheers :rofl:

So, if uve eliminated all the options and it must be this causing the axel tramp, what is a good way to fix it. Should i set the shocks to the hardest damper setting possible so that the shock resists the spring more?

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/128984-axle-hop/#findComment-2631709
Share on other sites

if 4 is the problem, then shocks aren't working, you can try increasing the damper (particularly if your shocks have rebound damper adjustment), but it's common for blown shocks to cause axle tramp, you may need to replace or rebuild the shock absorber. the spring rate could also be too high, so you should also look into that.

it's possible to run ultra-high springrates without problems provided your shocks are up to the task!

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/128984-axle-hop/#findComment-2631795
Share on other sites

if 4 is the problem, then shocks aren't working, you can try increasing the damper (particularly if your shocks have rebound damper adjustment), but it's common for blown shocks to cause axle tramp, you may need to replace or rebuild the shock absorber. the spring rate could also be too high, so you should also look into that.

it's possible to run ultra-high springrates without problems provided your shocks are up to the task!

Well basically ive just installed pineapples and it hasnt fixed the tramp, So its either the tyres or the springs/shocks

I dont thing my shocks have rebound adjustement but they do have damper adjustement. To minimise axel tramp u think i should try increasing the damper, ie setting it to really hard?

Assuming the shocks are fine which i think they are, what springs do u reccomend?

I think tyres may also be contributing. I've got some really cheap brand called ANT tyre, that doesnt grip properly and is made of really hard compound. (Ie they hardly ever smoke, Ive had them a year and the tread is still 95%)

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/128984-axle-hop/#findComment-2636122
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • From there, it is really just test and assemble. Plug the adapter cables from the unit into the back of the screen, then the other side to the car harness. Don't forget all the other plugs too! Run the cables behind the unit and screw it back into place (4 screws) and you should now have 3 cables to run from the top screen to the android unit. I ran them along the DS of the other AV units in the gap between their backets and the console, and used some corrugated tubing on the sharp edges of the bracket so the wires were safe. Plug the centre console and lower screen in temporarily and turn the car to ACC, the AV should fire up as normal. Hold the back button for 3 sec and Android should appear on the top screen. You need to set the input to Aux for audio (more on that later). I put the unit under the AC duct in the centre console, with the wifi antenna on top of the AC duct near the shifter, the bluetooth antenna on the AC duct under the centre console The GPS unit on top of the DS to AC duct; they all seem to work OK there are are out of the way. Neat cable routing is a pain. For the drive recorder I mounted it near the rear view mirror and run the cable in the headlining, across the a pillar and then down the inside of the a pillar seal to the DS lower dash. From there it goes across and to one USB input for the unit. The second USB input is attached to the ECUtec OBD dongle and the 3rd goes to the USB bulkhead connected I added in the centre console. This is how the centre console looks "tidied" up Note I didn't install the provided speaker, didn't use the 2.5mm IPod in line or the piggyback loom for the Ipod or change any DIP switches; they seem to only be required if you need to use the Ipod input rather than the AUX input. That's it, install done, I'll follow up with a separate post on how the unit works, but in summary it retains all factory functions and inputs (so I still use my phone to the car for calls), reverse still works like factory etc.
    • Place the new daughterboard in the case and mount it using the 3 small black rivets provided, and reconnect the 3 factory ribbon cables to the new board Then, use the 3 piggyback cables from the daughterboard into the factory board on top (there are stand offs in the case to keep them apart. and remember to reconnect the antenna and rear cover fan wires. 1 screw to hold the motherboard in place. Before closing the case, make a hole in the sticker covering a hole in the case and run the cable for the android unit into the plug there. The video forgot this step, so did I, so will you probably. Then redo the 4 screws on back, 2 each top and bottom, 3 each side and put the 2 brackets back on.....all ready to go and not that tricky really.      
    • Onto the android unit. You need to remove the top screen because there is a daughterboard to put inside the case. Each side vent pops out from clips; start at the bottom and carefully remove upwards (use a trim remover tool to avoid breaking anything). Then the lower screen and controls come out, 4 screws, a couple of clips (including 3 flimsy ones at the top) and 3 plugs on the rear. Then the upper screen, 4 screws and a bunch of plugs and she is out. From there, remove the mounting brackets (2 screws each), 4 screws on the rear, 2 screws top and bottom and 3 screws holding in the small plates on each side. When you remove the back cover (tight fit), watch out for the power cable for the fan, I removed it so I could put the back aside. The mainboard is held in by 1 screw in the middle, 1 aerial at the top and 3 ribbon cables. If you've ever done any laptop stuff the ribbon cables are OK to work with, just pop up the retainer and they slide out. If you are not familiar just grab a 12 year old from an iphone factory, they will know how it works The case should now look like this:
    • Switching the console was tricky. First there were 6 screws to remove, and also the little adapter loom and its screws had to come out. Also don't forget to remove the 2 screws holding the central locking receiver. Then there are 4 clips on either side....these were very tight in this case and needed careful persuading with a long flat screw driver....some force required but not enough to break them...this was probably the fiddliest part of the whole job. In my case I needed both the wiring loom and the central locking receiver module to swap across to the new one. That was it for the console, so "assembly is the reverse of disassembly"
    • But first....while I was there, I also swapped across the centre console box for the other style where the AV inputs don't intrude into the (very limited !) space.  Part# was 96926-4GA0A, 284H3-4GA0B, 284H3-4GA0A. (I've already swapped the top 12v socket for a USB bulkhead in this pic, it fit the hole without modification:) Comparison of the 2: Basically to do the console you need to remove the DS and PS side console trim (they slide up and back, held in by clips only) Then remove the back half of the console top trim with the cupholders, pops up, all clips again but be careful at the front as it is pretty flimsy. Then slide the shifter boot down, remove the spring clip, loose it forever somewhere in the car the pull the shift knob off. Remove the tiny plastic piece on DS near "P" and use something thin and long (most screwdrivers won't fit) to push down the interlock and put the shifter down in D for space. There is one screw at the front, then the shifter surround and ashtray lift up. There are 3 or 4 plugs underneath and it is off. Next is the rear cover of the centre console; you need to open the console lid, pop off the trim covering the lid hinge and undo the 2rd screw from the driver's side (the rest all need to come out later so you can do them all now and remove the lid) Then the rear cover unclips (6 clips), start at the top with a trim tool pulling backwards. Once it is off there are 2 screws facing rearwards to remove (need a short phillips for these) and you are done with the rear of the console. There are 4 plugs at the A/V box to unclip Then there are 2 screws at the front of the console, and 2 clips (pull up and back) and the console will come out.
×
×
  • Create New...