Vg30 Highflow Turbocharger

[Tangles]

Ok all, I wont bore you with indepth details, etc. BUT - Im a happy chappy and cant help myself:

I have won and paid for an ebay bid for a highflowed VG30 turbo. Its advertised as "being on a R32 that made 257 at the rears at 14psi", although the wreckers that are selling it have also stated that they can not guarantee condition as its still on the car and wont be taken off until sold - well, its sold now ! lol

The seller has said they advertise all goods they arnt 100% sure about as "Sold as is suit rebuild regardless of condition"; all I know is that the car was driven into their yards, and they offer a 7day return policy too.

For $150 meh I can deal with that. I wont have the turbo for at least another week or so, but thought Id start gathering info.

Now for my query here in the Forced Induction section.

* what do I need to do to determine the actual condition of the turbo? I havent got it in my possession as yet so I cant post photos. ie:

---> Id like to know whats acceptable movement for the shaft "side to side" and "fowards/backwards" from a highflowed GCG R33/R34 turbo? measured in mm.

---> how can I test it to see if the oil seals etc are still in good condition? whats the go here? how do I do it?

* seeing it is already highflowed, what sort of budget quotes might I be looking for if it needed the ball bearings replaced, and the shaft rebalanced etc? Id imagine that the blades wouldnt need to be replaced if in good condition, just replace the BB centre and oil seals and rebalance? ball-park budgets......

Cheers lads, you're a wealth of advice. Just after as much info for the home handy man to tell if its useable as is or not. I may be jumping the gun a little but I cant contain my excitement in finding a highflowed VG30 turbo that may or may not be in good nick, for cheap.

Brendan

[mad082]

you may be looking at the same price as getting a normal 1 highflowed, possibly a touch cheaper. not 100% sure, but i had looked into getting a turbo rebuilt with the same specs that it had, and the cost was close enough to the cost of a highflow. that was through GCG.

[R31Nismoid]

side to side play is ok, and there will be a little. you cant push a "mm" figure to it. But not enough to touch housings obviously.

Front to back is not cool

Replacement/rebuild will easily pip over $500. Bush Bearing kits are around the $400 + fitting, so Ball Bearing it going to go somewhat higher than that without a doubt.

[Tangles]

thanks lads, keep it coming; Ive got another week to stew over the condition of this turbo yet!!

yeah, side to side, fair enough - as long as it isnt hitting edges, ok I understand that.

front to back - not even a mm in "give" is ok? I figured anything over like 2.5mm isnt healthy.

** how about oil seals etc? how do I test that? **

yeah, rebuild I would have thought around the $800 mark, dependent on condition of blades etc. definately wouldnt expect a $1700 quote tho

but either way, $150 outlay for a highflowed VG30 turbo - IF a rebuild is required, and IF that said rebuild is under a grand, then its a bargain still in my book!

keep the thoughts coming, fellow-SAU'ers

[R31Nismoid]

Well i paid... a super cheap $1000 to rebuild my GT30. That was a new core, front wheel and a machined housing.

That wasnt retail pricing, that was pure trade pricing.

I forget what the cartridges go for

And are you sure its a GCG job?

[Tangles]

And are you sure its a GCG job?

positive its not a GCG, I have no information to suggest otherwise - but we'll find out soon enough. the only info I have is the price Ive paid, the turbo type, that its a highflow, and that condition is unknown atm.

I only mentioned a highflowed GCG as they seem a popular option here on SAU and someone might be able to shed some light on acceptable shaft play on a GCG highflow turbo, either R33 or the larger R34.

thanks for the price info Ash....... now Im sure IF it needed a rebuild I could finally handshake a deal for under a grand; I figure I can but we'll see, all in good time. just hoping like hell its all good, and Ive got the ebay bargain of the year!

[R31Nismoid]

Or it could be the worst bargain

mainly because its totally mis-matched with some bad wheel combo'd... or poorly machined rear housings etc etc

And then you virtually paying another 2k to get the job done correct.

Get some pics of it i reckons

[mad082]

also have to check whether it has been hiflowed with a bush or ball bearing core.

[Tangles]

Or it could be the worst bargain

could be, lol - thems the risks of ebay, hey! ebay's only failed me once or twice so far.....!

thats been factored into..... if so, then I *should* be able to get my money back via resale.

either way, for $150 its worth playing around with. we'll see. although I never thought about mismatched wheels or poor machining of the rear housing. Meh - one of those things, spot late at night, think about it, bid on spur of moment. could be junk could be gold.

will post photos once received. ta. couldnt get photos prior to sale as the wrecker said on the ebay listing that its currently on the R32 and he wont take it off until its sold, hence sold in "as is" condition, may require rebuild may not....... but then again its in a wrecked car. whats the chance the turbo blew resulting in the car to spin and crash and be written off?

[Tangles]

also have to check whether it has been hiflowed with a bush or ball bearing core.

top suggesion....... how do I do that?

ok, for the home handyman;

1 - how can you tell whether its bush or ball bearing?

2 - how can you tell if the oil seals are all ok?

3 - what sort of allowance for shaft movement is considered by the experts to be 'ok' ?

Cheers lads and ladies, thats all for now!

Brendan

[R31Nismoid]

if its in your hands, ball bearing will spin for around 30 seconds.

Bush wont, bush has more play than ball bearing also

oil seals - no ideas. you'd have to check for it face value, other than that the only way would be to pressurise it. Dont know how you'd go about that in the confines of the home

[Cubes]

I have checked a few turbo's out in the past.

All have a tinny little side to side and in and out movement. Only very small amounts.

Spin the shaft very slowly and listen/feel for any little grabs or crunchiness. Apart from that its fairly difficult to tell the condition of it, especially seals, the only turbo that was 'almost' perfectly clean is the vg30 turbo I picked up a little while back, the stock item that came off was fairly dirty but showed no signs of dumping oil through the ic piping.

When I say dirty I'm looking at the plate and you see when the comp cover is pulled off.

Chances are its a bush bearing... Don't let that worry you with regards to spool as bl4ck32's rb20det bush highflow that runs larger comp and turbine wheels spools quicker and better response than my stock bb vg30det turbo. Thats on a 3ltr, on a smaller motor the lag may have a greater difference and make the turbo feel lazy.

[Tangles]

Thanks lads, top advice. After further research it seems that its almost impossible to tell the oil seal condition, without the turbo being pulled apart and inspected.

If its bush or ball bearing, meh, doesnt matter to me now. Highflowed is good tho

I'll repost once Ive received it and checked it out, and had it professionally looked at too

[Cubes]

Dynamic Turbochargers / MTQ are a good mob to see in Adelaide.

http://www.mtqes.com.au/Locations.htm

[Tangles]

Ta, will have a chat to them about a 15% highflow to my fuel injectors too !

And will see bill at ATS and the local Lonsdale turbo place too, just to get an idea for condition prior to bolting onto my engine.......................

[bbe]

dynAMIC turbo chargers yeh rite

bought a t28 of them mechanic fitted blew within a week voided warranty as they said i was overboosting it yeh rite

ATS and only ats

[Cubes]

Overboosting tells us nothing.

How did it fail? Bearing failure?

Was it a high flow or complete garrett unit? journal or ball bearing?

I think most turbo places have had issues in the past... ATS being one of them.

[MANWHORE]

Ok

I've done a lot of research on this topic and spoken to GCG about it previously.

If you want to high flow a vg30, the one you want is the ballbearing one.

The ballbearing one will have an op6 rear housing. NOT the 45v rear housing (I am not talking about the inlet housing). The bolt pattern on the non ballbearing one is different.

GCG said that the non non ball bearing one is no good. The rear housing cannot be used with the rb25 turbo. Also, if you wanted to rebuild the non bb, they cannot fit bb to a non bb.

PS - The r34 turbo has the same large rear housing as the ballbearing vg30. I have one for sale atm with the op6 housing if your'e interested.

[MANWHORE]

ALso, gcg charge the full price when rebuilding a turbo that they didn't highflow themselves. e.g. they can't just mix and match some parts with others that are not theirs etc.

You can't tell if the seal are leaking without testing it.

BB turbos have a bit of play in them. maybe 0.5mm is ok. If you pull the shaft side to side and it touches the housing, it is probably not ok.

If the housing/blades have been scraping, it is not ok.

[Tangles]

Read this page:

seems a T3 turbocharger is meant to be abled to be "serviced" at home.

what do you think?????

http://www.saabperformanceparts.com/item107.htm

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T3 turbo DIY rebuild kit USD99.95

T3 turbocharger REBUILD KIT for SAAB, VOLVO, FORD, MERKUR, NISSAN, MERCEDES, DODGE, Etc. Includes all hardware and replacement components for complete owner rebuild of any factory T3 GARRETT turbocharger or the Turbonetics T3 versions.

The GARETT T3 was implemented on a majority of the early to late 1980s turbocharged automotive applications which included all Saab 900 applications from 1980-1989 and all turbocharged 9000 applications from 1986-1989. Our kit will work on all T3 Garret turbochargers which includes both oil cooled and water cooled versions of this family. This amazing package includes all bearings, piston ring oil seals, seal plates, hardware, thrust collar, thrust bearing, gaskets, o-rings, shims, exploded diagram, photos, instructions,etc. for the proper maintenance of the factory unit. Servicing the OEM turbo is simple and is considered a Do-It-Yourself project which will not require special tools or skills. Since the T3 turbocharger uses a pre-balanced rotating assembly, this balancing will be retained when re-assembling these units (IE: no need to balance the turbocharger after rebuild). Our kit replaces all common wear items, is excellent preventive maintenance (will reduce shaft movement/play, reduce oil bypassing/smoking, etc.), and replaces all common components employed when considering a rebuilt GARRETT T3 turbocharger.

Our kit will also work on all T3 GARRETT turbochargers (will be marked as TB03) on many Volvo, Mercedes, Ford (T-bird, etc), XR4TI, etc. Please call or Email for confirmation of proper fit when considering this kits employment on applications other than SAAB.

Please also see our 360 degree turbine oil seal which will eliminate typical oil bypassing (smoke in exhaust) and is listed from our "Turbocharger and Related" pages.

Weight: 2.00 lb Reference: T3rbldkit

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food for thought ?

edit: more:

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T3 360 Degree TurbineOil Seal USD24.95

GARRETT T3 turbocharger 360 degree turbine oil seal. Designed to fit all T3, T4, and T3/T4 hybrid turbochargers and will replace/update the factory GARRETT piston ring oil seal to eliminate oil bypassing (oil/smoke in engine exhaust). See photo to show OEM/GARRETT oil seal at left and the 360 degree oil seal at right.

This oil seal is a new (as of 2005) version stainless steel staggered gap piston ring oil seal and are the same seals that we employ on our Red Series turbochargers for the best in oil retention!

The original/OEM piston ring oil seal maintains a .008-.013" gap to allow for thermal expansion at the turbine side of the turbocharger. As the old style piston ring sees service/wear, the gap will increase/widen allowing for oil bypassing and, typically, smoke in the engine exhaust. The new style 360 degree piston ring oil seal will actually overlap when in service which eliminates the concern for oil bypassing and will never reduce oil retention properties after wear/service. In short, this 360 degree oil seal is designed to eliminate oil bypassing for the life of the turbocharger.

=)

Edited August 10, 2006 by Tangles