Modifying An R33 Gts-t

[shoebox]

Yea, i'll go for the copper ones then. Thanks, wolverine and rev210!

rev210: NGK BCPR6ES are 6's, right? My current ones are 5.. which is why i want to replace them.

SITC... hmm. Are there any other companies which still manufacture them? It looks like a pretty neat tuning tool.

Edited October 11, 2006 by shoebox

[mad082]

You are quite wrong to assume that a 600x300x75 core is the right size for stock turbo equiped gtst. It isn't by a long shot. Granted the factory intercoolers core isn't great design wise and can be improved on but, the physical size of the core is pretty close to the right size for the airflow needs of a street/strip gtst.

when you and dozens of other skyline owners tell the world about going noticably better,I point you to the 'real world' measurements that say otherwise. Like peoples 1/4 mile times as basic indication of road going accelleration changes.

Bottom line is people have used the factory intercooler on stock turbo's to run into 12's. Conversly there is a very common phenomina of front mount equiped gtst's going slower than a stock car.

Go here to learn some facts you can apply to any intercooler equiped car. www.are.com.au

well the problem is that you have forgotten the fact that once the throttle is fully open and you are at full boost the stock cooler usually flows less than most front mounts. this means that the turbo has to work harder to flow the same amount of air.

also to compare a car with a front mount with to a completely different car with a front mount at the drags is pointless. to compare times you would have to have the same driver in the same car and do multiple runs with the stock cooler vs the front mount and work off average times. i'm yet to hear of anyone go to the drags with the stock cooler then go with a fmic and run slower, then put the stock cooler back on and run faster again.

i'm sure there are people getting into the 12's with the stock cooler, but there are also people doing it with a front mount.

all the size of a cooler changes is response.

[rev210]

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Edited October 12, 2006 by rev210

[shoebox]

sorry to hijack this guys thread with the argument.

No worries, we're all trying to learn here. But wow. That's really something interesting!

[mad082]

the drag strip comparsion is not pointless at all

it is if you are comparing 2 different cars with 2 different setups, with 2 different drivers. there are too many factors. tyres, suspension, tyre pressure, clutch, rpm launched at, compression of the motor, etc.

here's an example. 2 cars run at the drags. 1 runs a 10.46 @ 131.3mph with a 60ft of 1.66

another car runs a 11.36 @ 119.3mph with a 60ft time of 1.648.

does this mean that the second car is more powerful because it got a better 60ft time? no it just means it got a better launch.

[Noel]

This is a quote from something SydneyKid once told me...

"It’s simple maths, if the engine is making 30% more power (= 30 % more airflow) then you can have 30% more volume in the inlet system and have the same response"

So with this logic if you are going to get a front mount make sure its one suited to your mods, power levels, psi etc & you cant go wrong but if you do like alot of people seem to do & get a massive front mount & piping suited to something with much more power than you have it will be an overkill an you might loose throttle response with little or no gains

[Munna1]

My rule of thumb for intercoolers on a R33 GTST are. If you plan to keep the stock turbo (no high flowing etc.) The R34 GTT cooler is a good choice as its efficient for 200rwkw, cheep, easy to install, and you don’t sacrifice any throttle response.

This is not to say you wont benefit slightly from a larger cooler at this power level but the trade of is throttle response. Fact is though I didn’t find the response much different between the stocker and my hybrid super monster but many other people have noted a difference.

I believe the reason people sometimes find that the car is slower after the bigger intercooler install is the fact that it runs extra rich the ecu sees way more air and richens the mixtures. Get your AFR's sorted then you will notice a huge difference. The intercooler plus tune made a huge difference to my car.

Sure people have run 12's using the stock cooler, but what tires where they using, what suspension setup did they have, how good was the driver, what were the track conditions, there is much more to drag racing than power.

To do this properly get a car, same driver, suspention, tires, track conditions, stock cooler with engine management tuned to suit extra boost, exhaust etc. have 5 runs take the average time.

Keeping everything the same exept for a upgraded cooler and a ECU tune to suit the extra air flow. 5 runs take the average time.

Ill bet my bottom dollar the car with the upgraded cooler will be signifitly quicker.

cheers

Edited October 12, 2006 by Munna1

[rev210]

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Edited October 12, 2006 by rev210

[mad082]

ok, well if you read the fine print, he went slower because of more axle tramp, and he had a lighter flywheel. so you could blame the slower times on the flywheel, as he didn't adjust his driving style to take into account the performance difference. a lighter flywheel is more enclined to make the car bog down off the line as it has less inertia, and has less chance of the clutch slipping. so if you try to launch at the same rpm as you did before it is going to act differently.

so even though he had an extra 35 or so kw at the top end, the bigger cooler magically made the dyno readout lie? so on the dyno he had more power, but on the road it just magically dissapeared?

on the 3rd visit he had much more power and was suffering from wheelspin. is due to the fmic being too big and making the car have less power so that instead of having more power and more traction it has less power and less traction? i think not. and look, they were all done on different days. so the later days may have been hotter, or the track might not have been as sticky, there may have been an oil down, or there may have been a headwind, and he used different tyres for some of the runs, and on the last lot he had different suspension. the list of holes in your theory of it being caused by the intercooler goes on.

find me some 1/4 runs done back to back on the same day with no other mods other than the cooler and i'll believe them.

[rev210]

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Edited October 12, 2006 by rev210

[mad082]

well untill you provide actual proof of a cooler making a car slower, there is no point.

here i quote the simpsons.

lisa: i could claim this rock keeps tigers away.

homer: how can a rock do that?

lisa: well do you see any tigers around?

homer: i would like to buy that rock from you

you have found some drag times that suit your story and just used them. if there were no other variables then it would work, but there are more variables that could make a bigger difference to the times than just an intercooler. the only constant is the driver and the basic car.

[rev210]

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Edited October 12, 2006 by rev210

[shoebox]

Okay now that we've got the intercoolers out of the way, how about suspensions? What kind of settings and suspensions do you use?